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Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

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Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#211

Post by dredmorbius »

rayiner wrote: post #154
dredmorbius wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Among other factors mentioned: employer-specific skillsets. Technology jobs are very highly specialised. And I'm not just speaking of computer tech. I'm old enough to have seen several generations of obsoleted "gold tickets". Nuclear Engineering, future destroyed March 28, 1979. Freeway engineers, the freeway protests of the 1960s/1970s. Big Three auto manufacturers, dream destroyed with the first oil embargo, and su…

> Aerospace engineers, dream destroyed with the fall of the Soviet Union and redundancies in the military-industrial complex throughout NATO powers. Should've seen the writing on the wall when it fell.

Hindsight, 20/20, and all that.

It's really, really easy to think you're one of God's Chosen (or Allahs, or Jehovas, or Buddha's, or ...) when you're at the top of the world, you've got a multi-trillion-dollar wind in your sails, you went to the best schools, and you make titanium and airaluminium dance on the wind and all that.

1980s aerospace engineers weren't the first to take that tumble. They won't be the last.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#213

Post by gozur88 »

licoricetic wrote: post #204
gozur88 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can, but only if someone's willing to hire you. Employers are leery of hiring you for substantially less money than you made in the last job. The fear is you're still looking, and a few months down the road (before you've really accomplished anything) you'll quit.

There is no need to tell an employer your previous salary.

You don't think it affects your job prospects when you refuse?

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#214

Post by MikeNomad »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #210
askafriend wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's me right now, early in my career. I'm ready to go hard and fuck your shit up. Sorry!

Haha, come at me, youth! Seriously, though, as long as you keep up, and avoid being a curmudgeon, you're gonna be fine. The only ones who die in this industry choose to stop swimming.

Trying to work with your analogy... Does that mean H1Bs are the sharks, or the chum?

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#215

Post by zenlikethat »

gozur88 wrote: post #213
licoricetic wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no need to tell an employer your previous salary.

You don't think it affects your job prospects when you refuse?

If they won't hire you because you won't disclose your salary, you don't want to work for that company anyway.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#216

Post by acdha »

SilasX wrote: post #131
jwiley wrote: post #97

During the dot-com bust of the early 2000s, I was working at a super-market. One of the guys stocking shelves was a software engineer laid off by a large company after 40 years. The management at Winn Dixie put him stacking boxes in the freezer section...since they knew he needed the money and wouldn't quit. Maybe he deserved to get fired, maybe he didn't. The lesson to me that has been reinforced over my career in t…

And learn how to job search. There's surely a better job that guy could have found.

Other people have pointed out how rough the period around 2000 was but it's also worth looking at how similar things were the previous time that'd happened in the early 90s when the defense contractors laid off a ton of engineers as the Cold War died down. That meant that you had large numbers of people with similar backgrounds all on the job market, in the same areas at the same time, competing for a sharply reduced number of jobs. Those kind of effects cascade: maybe you find a job but need to relocate, which means selling your house for a lot less than it was worth last year, or your spouse's job is also cut back because it was still linked to the local economy even if they didn't work at the same company.

I got my first tech job in 1996 doing QA for a COBOL compiler vendor in San Diego. It paid $15/hour and there were multiple applicants with physics & engineering Ph.Ds and years of experience! The detail which is more sobering the older I get is that the company figured – correctly, I'm sure – that the more experienced applicants were likely to leave as soon as they could find something better, so it didn't matter how willing anyone was to take any job available.

Sure, the market eventually recovered and some people repurposed all of that Cold War tech to make things like carbon-fiber golf clubs and bicycles commonplace but that's hardly going to help the person who went from living the American dream to struggling just to make the next mortgage payment, pay for their kid's braces or college tuition, etc. Even if they did eventually find a job, let alone one which pays comparably, it can take years to recover financially even if nothing else happens.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#217

Post by [deleted] »

SilasX wrote: post #131
jwiley wrote: post #97

During the dot-com bust of the early 2000s, I was working at a super-market. One of the guys stocking shelves was a software engineer laid off by a large company after 40 years. The management at Winn Dixie put him stacking boxes in the freezer section...since they knew he needed the money and wouldn't quit. Maybe he deserved to get fired, maybe he didn't. The lesson to me that has been reinforced over my career in t…

And learn how to job search. There's surely a better job that guy could have found.

[deleted]

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#218

Post by sk5t »

increment_i wrote: post #38
marcus_holmes wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the article IBM bought Softlayer and has only just launched BlueMix. I tried Bluemix and found it unoriginal and a cit crap. Not that the world of cloud services moves according to my preferences, but I'm not seeing it used anywhere else either. If IBM is "prominent" in cloud services it's from acquisitions. Whereas AWS pioneered the cloud industry. This is certainly "doing things right" in that it's pro…

I had a similar experience with Bluemix. One of the biggest turn offs though was the ridiculously convoluted website for IBM's cloud services. Some serious streamlining is in order there. I had no idea where to go or what to do to get the information I needed for simple things like straightforward API pricing, etc.

One possible explanation is that IBM actually has no idea what to charge for most BlueMix services.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#219

Post by ransom1538 »

dredmorbius wrote: post #117
mathattack wrote: post #40

Here's what I don't get... If you have any options at all, why stay at a company with sub-par technology that abuses their workers? They've been stuck in low 3 Glassdoor [0] range for a while. It's layoff after layoff as they slowly dismantle the company. Why stay? Geographic limitations? Narrow skillsets? [0] https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/IBM-Reviews-E354.htm#trend...

Among other factors mentioned: employer-specific skillsets. Technology jobs are very highly specialised. And I'm not just speaking of computer tech. I'm old enough to have seen several generations of obsoleted "gold tickets". Nuclear Engineering, future destroyed March 28, 1979. Freeway engineers, the freeway protests of the 1960s/1970s. Big Three auto manufacturers, dream destroyed with the first oil embargo, and su…

Regarding skill sets. I have only been in software 12 years or so, but I noticed a type of tech 'gamble'. Basically, when you decided to learn something in tech you are basically gambling that the tech will last. In 2007 many faced a simple decision: AS3 or iOS. Supposed you chose AS3. Then, worked on it from 2009-2012, quite profitably. Currently the AS3 job outlook is horrific, and all that knowledge is a waste. Now, iOS people are skilled, wanted and are taking lead roles. (Oh yeah, now you are old). Want to learn GO? Be careful.

Re: Reports Coming in of Big IBM Layoffs Underway in the U.S.

#220

Post by metaphorm »

gozur88 wrote: post #132
metaphorm wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

shareholder capitalism is a noxious falsehood that has very unfortunately been enshrined in our current interpretation of the law. this should not be regarded as a baseline truth nor a desirable transitional state. it is a bad idea that we must not succumb to. companies are multi-faceted entities with many different stakeholders. the workers are a 100% necessary stakeholder and the company cannot operate without them…

And... so what? Sure, the company needs employees, but it doesn't need the people who are there. What's noxious is the whole idea of "stakeholders", as if working somewhere gives you some kind of ownership. If you want to own your job you need to be self employed. If I hire someone to cut my grass is he now a "stakeholder" who needs to be consulted when I sell my house?

your house is not a company. your lawnmower is not an employee, he's a vendor.
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