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Windows Now Showing Full-Screen Ads

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Re: Windows Now Showing Full-Screen Ads

#211

Post by seanp2k2 »

wongarsu wrote: post #157
api wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People want free. Things aren't free. But people want free, so let's give them "free" and monetize them indirectly with surveillance, invasive advertising, etc. The entire Internet has gone down this road since it's very hard to compete with someone who is giving something away for "free" (note quotes). Free has given us George Orwell's bidirectional it-watches-you TV set.

>it's very hard to compete with someone who is giving something away for "free" (note quotes) There's at least one very promising competing model: give something away for free (note lack of quotes) and offer people the option to pay. In the software world we usually do that by using the free version as advertisement for a better paid version, Patreon (and Dwarf Fortress etc) show that the model can even work if payin…

I agree with your point but I doubt that something published by such a large company which many consumers have a distaste for ("my stupid computer is always blue-screening; I hate Microsoft") would be able to sustain such a huge development effort on just donations.

Edit: if it were open-source and they paid some people to work on it still, that would be...interesting.

Re: Windows Now Showing Full-Screen Ads

#212

Post by bduerst »

wongarsu wrote: post #185
bduerst wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, also called TANSTaaFL (There ain't no such thing as a free lunch). Which is the point in context to someone saying "If only there really was universal expectation of free software...". With IP, the costs are hidden and it's easy to fall into the trap of expecting it to be totally free.

The problem with TANSTaaFL is that it uses a completely different definition of the word free than normal English. Normally the word free only references the price paid by the consumer, not the cost of production. If I give you a lunch without asking for anything in return, and without inconveniencing you, that's a free lunch for you. Of course somebody paid for it, but that doesn't stop me from giving it to you for…

Oh definitely, the "with donations" is also TANSTaaFL since it acknowledges costs. You're just arguing semantics.

I don't think they meant "universal expectation of free software with donations only".

Re: Windows Now Showing Full-Screen Ads

#213

Post by arm »

fiatjaf wrote: post #111

It's funny to read all those irritating comments: "oh, my OS is showing me ads", people complaining after they got a pirate OS without paying for it.

Are you joking? Windows 10 actually does cost money. And the people who pay for it still get to see ads.

Re: Windows Now Showing Full-Screen Ads

#214

Post by kuschku »

strommen wrote: post #200
gargravarr wrote: post #6

Seems like the only way people want to make money these days is through invasive advertising without the end-user's explicit consent. Granted the expectation of free software is driving most of this, but it starts a vicious cycle because those who get annoyed with them develop countermeasures, which the creator responds to with more aggressive ads, ad infinitum. It does start explaining some of the highly controversi…

Isn't pretty much all advertising everywhere "without the end-user's explicit consent"? Websites, TV, radio, print media, billboards, sides of buses, posters in public bathrooms, Disney-branded kids' food at the grocery store, product placements embedded in actual Hollywood movies, desktop search in freakin' Ubuntu... I didn't sign up for seeing ads in any of these. They're just an implicit part of the social contrac…

You can block websites, only listen to radio channels without ads, switch to another TV channel when ads are coming up, use print media that have no ads but are subscription financed, etc.

In many cities you’ll even find that bus advertisements are toned down, and in public bathrooms there are no posters either.

I don’t remember when I saw or heard an ad the last time, but it was not this week.

Re: Windows Now Showing Full-Screen Ads

#215

Post by pdkl95 »

wongarsu wrote: post #196
pdkl95 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You also paid nothing for it. Windows requires payment, just not in dollars. The data gathered from "telemetry" (spyware) is valuable. edit: I'll assume from the downvotes that some people want to pretend that pattern-of-life data isn't valuable

> I'll assume from the downvotes that some people want to pretend that pattern-of-life data isn't valuable I'm pretty sure it's from people who either payed for Windows and just got a free upgrade, or who directly bought Windows 10. Computers with "free" Windows obviously also have the price of Windows factored in. The closest you get to free Windows is with Dreamspark (their MINT student program), and even that cost…

Like many in posts in this thread, the "free" I was replying is the Win10 upgrade. Unlike previous upgrades that cost money, many people instead had to pay for that upgrade in data.

Obviously Windows is sold in other forms, and new pre-built computers still have a Windows Tax.

Re: Windows Now Showing Full-Screen Ads

#216

Post by jfuhrman »

wongarsu wrote: post #128
jfuhrman wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't drop something that doesn't exist.

You can drop something that doesn't exist but was announced. Thechnically Skylake support for Win7 wasn't announced, but the effect is the same since there was an implicit expectation that the feature would come.

>Thechnically Skylake support for Win7 wasn't announced, but the effect is the same since there was an implicit expectation that the feature would come.

From where did this implicit expectation come from?

Windows 7 mainstream support ended in Jan 2015 and that was known since forever.

Extended support implies:

>Microsoft no longer supplies non-security hotfixes unless you have an extended support agreement

>All warranty claims end

>Microsoft no long accepts requests for new features and design changes

Re: Windows Now Showing Full-Screen Ads

#217

Post by arm »

GhotiFish wrote: post #167
BinaryIdiot wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fine with jumping aboard the hate train for things like the Office ads but this seems like a pretty non-issue and I agree with you. Just like the Google Play widget or notifications for the App Store on iOS; Windows is doing the same-thing but with a lock screen background. I'm not sure if this is a default (I thought it wasn't; it certainly wasn't when I bought a Surface a couple of weeks ago). If this is a defa…

I look at it as a part of a larger arc of issues. Windows is going fremium. I feel like advertisements as a direct component of an operating system have crossed a line. This is like when Ubuntu started advertising amazon products in their launch bar. It crossed a line.

Yeah, and the worst part is, Windows 10 actually does¹ cost money. And the people who pay for it still get to see ads.

It seems like the only sure way to avoid all this tracking crap in Windows 10 is to pony up for the Enterprise version (which is basically impossible if you’re not a business).

――――――

¹ — http://www.microsoftstore.com/store?keywords=windows+10&Site...

Re: Windows Now Showing Full-Screen Ads

#219

Post by bduerst »

signal11 wrote: post #32
gargravarr wrote: post #6

Seems like the only way people want to make money these days is through invasive advertising without the end-user's explicit consent. Granted the expectation of free software is driving most of this, but it starts a vicious cycle because those who get annoyed with them develop countermeasures, which the creator responds to with more aggressive ads, ad infinitum. It does start explaining some of the highly controversi…

Having read the article, this is about the "Windows Spotlight" feature -- which shows you a different wallpaper just before you log in. For me it's usually the default "cave and beach" wallpaper[1] although it's shown interesting photos from time to time, so I've left the feature on. It's on by default but pretty easy to disable. Not sure how I'd feel if it started showing me blatant ads. I'd probably just turn it of…

It's sponsored content, which is still advertising, just that it's not a "native ad".

Re: Windows Now Showing Full-Screen Ads

#220

Post by [deleted] »

wongarsu wrote: post #185
bduerst wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, also called TANSTaaFL (There ain't no such thing as a free lunch). Which is the point in context to someone saying "If only there really was universal expectation of free software...". With IP, the costs are hidden and it's easy to fall into the trap of expecting it to be totally free.

The problem with TANSTaaFL is that it uses a completely different definition of the word free than normal English. Normally the word free only references the price paid by the consumer, not the cost of production. If I give you a lunch without asking for anything in return, and without inconveniencing you, that's a free lunch for you. Of course somebody paid for it, but that doesn't stop me from giving it to you for…

[deleted]
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