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SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

washingtonpost.com

211–220 of 515 posts

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#211
post #9

To play devil's advocate, he's right. He shouldn't have to see the pain, struggle, and despair of homeless - the city government should be providing affordable housing and shelters for the homeless. That it hasn't is a failure of the local government, and should be addressed. Much of the reason that affordable housing is out of reach of many in San Francisco is due to government regulation, not market capitalism. Ext…

The government is our employees, not some Other power above is. We need to make the changes. Make demands , build consensus, and run for office if needed.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#212
post #129

I'm kind of disappointed in the Post on this one. From reporting on internet outrage to repeating another publication's "tech bro" slur, this isn't set up to engender a real debate. Justin Keller is a terrible "face" for the debate (and so is Edna Miroslava Raia for the opposition). The facts are that San Fran has an economic problem and a homeless problem. Those problems are not mutually exclusive, but neither are t…

Thank you for being more concerned about the media image of comfortable, well-paid tech workers than San Francisco's increasing number of homeless people.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a complex issue... but in my experience, most of the homeless are not looking for help to find jobs and/or contribute to society in manner that will lead them out of "homelessness." A lot of them prefer this "lifestyle"... we try very hard to help the people that want help. Most don't. Go talk to your local EMS/Fire department personnel and most of them will have similar stories. I know the homeless people in…

The homeless often have mental illnesses. Forget less severe illness, 1/3 have been found to have severe illness: http://mentalillnesspolicy.org/consequences/homeless-mentall... So, it isn't they are homeless because they like the lifestyle, but it is often because of an illness that they prefer that lifestyle. We've all certainly felt extraordinary pressures related to common every-day life. Mental illness makes dea…

Where I live, it is more the opposite. People come here with irrational dreams, get on the street, fall into bad things, and then through dehydration, stress and living on the street, they become more irrational, and eventually permanently changed.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#214
post #9

To play devil's advocate, he's right. He shouldn't have to see the pain, struggle, and despair of homeless - the city government should be providing affordable housing and shelters for the homeless. That it hasn't is a failure of the local government, and should be addressed. Much of the reason that affordable housing is out of reach of many in San Francisco is due to government regulation, not market capitalism. Ext…

It's unfortunate people always have to play politics and angles. "'bro" is the new "thug". It's a label imposed on a person you disagree with in order to garner antipathy against them.

And yes, there should not be homeless people, they should be managed and taken care of by either government agencies, charities or families. It's a failure of society, rather than a failure of the people complaining about unhinged people who at times panhandle, sleep, urinate, defecate, scream, accost, spit, voice their inner monologues, eat, in public often times at the expense of the public.

And to be sure, this should not be a locally addressed problem but a national problem. Addressing it locally only attracts more homeless into homeless friendly areas.

Render homeless services to homeless based on where they lived the longest, from federal funds so you don't get concentrations in Santa Clara county, or Los Angeles county from people from all over.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#215
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

San Francisco has a $156M annual budget to address homelessness. That's not a small amount of money. First let's make sure that it's being spend efficiently.

Or, rather than get bogged down in never-ending "efficient government" debates, we can increase spending today and simultaneously address efficiencies. Far too often the demand "efficiency first" is just a means to delay the actual commitment of resources.

But what if the already non-trivial sum isn't being spent in the best way possible? It sounds like a lot of that is going to landlords in the form of rent; granted that's a burden off the people living there.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#216
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue my be complex but you don't see the same thing in most of Europe or Canada which suggests it's not immune to government action.

You really need to read up on the issue more then. Even a simple browsing of Wikipedia will show the statement is wrong. What is primarily different is reporting by news sources. If the US is nearing a million or two homeless (numbers reported are lower) for the size of its population how does that put it in perspective of Canada listing around three hundred thousand out of thirty five million people. The EU reports…

> Even a simple browsing of Wikipedia will show the statement is wrong.

I looked up "Homelessness in the UK" on Wikpedia and the first line is:

> Homelessness in the United Kingdom is kept somewhat at bay

> by a reasonable volume of housing, statutory rights, and

> various government initiatives.

I don't know what figures you are looking at, but one caveat that occurs to me is that the UK's main homelessness charity, Shelter, has a fairly broad definition of homelessness. You don't have to be sleeping in the street for them to consider you "homeless". Which is good, because relying on your friends' sofas for housing is indeed a very crappy situation which government policy should seek to minimize, but bad, because that's not what other people consider homelessness to be.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#217

I think he does have a point... but he could have put it better. I live in SF too; for ~10 years. I have never seen it this bad. The City passed a "sit/lie" law a couple of years ago.. but it's never enforced. The City is spending $1M/month ... for housing 225 people[1]. Do the math, and you'll see how ridiculous is that. At that rate, how much do you think the City can spend on the homeless? It has 7000 homeless, an…

The subject is more nuanced than this.

Firstly, you need to examine the reason why people are on the streets. Generally, it falls into three categories:

1. 'Normal' People with mental illness, and no support network

2. 'Normal' People who have lost their financial stability.

3. Rest (Choice, Addiction, etc. by far the smallest group)

The key thing to note here is that with very, very few exceptions, everyone living on the street was a 'normal' person. The line of being 'normal' and 'homeless' is startlingly slim.

For the majority of people, foundations are job, family and health. Most people can survive losing one, because the others elements support it. Two elements, most people will have problems bouncing back. Three, and you're on the street. Ask yourself: If tomorrow you lost your job and had significant health problem, could you survive? What if you had no family to support you?

Likewise, once on the street, mental health deteriorates rapidly. People wither in a matter of weeks and months. No matter how stoic, strong and determined you think you are - the streets will cripple you.

Once you're on the streets, getting back on your feet is hard. Try getting a job, an apartment, or even a document without a fixed address. It's a vicious circle.

Finally - yes, there are shelters. Unfortunately, most homeless people avoid shelters - as they are notorious spots for theft and abuse; most prefer to risk it on the streets. People aren't refusing help, they're refusing to be sexually assaulted, or have the very few posessions that have left being stolen.

Finally: you're totally right - SF is expensive. You suggest the homeless should leave, but forget the how: buy a plane / train / bus? Or, perhaps they should risk jumping without a ticket, then being arrested, and then having a felony against their name.

The take away message is this: homeless people are 'normal' people. The difference between you, me, and anyone with the homeless is that we're incredibly lucky to not have faced significant problems in life, or be burdened with mental illness.

It's a tough subject, and noone likes the results, but it's worth remembering you're human, and applying empathy.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#218
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's between 12k and 20k per person. Way less than you'd need to provide accommodation and treatment for a person with mental illness. It's not surprising it doesn't work.

The people blasting the city claim the city isn't doing enough, and when shown that they are actually are providing a remarkable amount of support, it still isn't enough. 12-20k annually is more than a significant chunk of the population earns in wages.

Throwing money at a problem is one thing. Intelligent allocation of that money is another.

I'm not saying it isn't allocated effectively, just that the numbers themselves do not tell the whole tale.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#219
post #28

The sad part about the blog post is that it does identify a big homelessness problem, but does so in a way that is callous and doesn't really help. I spend a couple of weeks in SF this month, and was shocked at the level of homelessness that we find even in very well off districts. This is not something that is common in the big cities of the world. The city is OK with tents everywhere, but that's not really that goo…

One of the (many) things that Keller — and many of the folks here who sound like newcomers to SF — don’t get is that the homeless population is not a new thing in San Francisco. It was just like this during the 1990’s, and some say it goes all the way back to when Reagan shut down California mental health services in the 70’s.

Re: SF tech bro: ‘I shouldn’t have to see the pain, struggle, despair of homeless’

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To play devil's advocate, he's right. You're not really agreeing with him though, are you? He's saying homeless people are an eyesore. You're saying the government should create more homeless shelters. I don't think you guys are even on the same planet in terms of your views.

He's saying homeless people are an eyesore and trashing the city, that's unquestionably true. He's also saying the government should fix it, what other options are there but homeless shelters? I don't get why people are acting like this guy wants to send the homeless to concentration camps and gas them.

Well, repealing the Ellis Act, for one. You (and he) are looking at this as if the homeless spontaneously came to exist as NPCs in the RPG that is his wonderful techie San Francisco existence rather than identifying the things that led them to this place in life like the Ellis Act, skyrocketing inflation, lack of lower-middle income jobs, etc.
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