Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town • Hacker News Board

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#211

Post by gorkemyurt » Fri, Feb 12, 2016, 7:27 PM UTC

One of the main reasons of the housing crisis in the Bay Area is Prop 13 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(197...) Prop 13 basically keeps the property taxes constant (or 1% increase) as the value of your house increases (doubles or triples). Your tax gets re-calculated only if you sell your house and the new owner starts paying potentially multiples of what the previous owner has been paying in taxes. This works great for older people who own property they can basically stay at their home forever, but it creates an unfair situation for new comers in the area and the newer generations.

How are property taxes calculated in other places in the world? Vancouver? London? Tokyo?

This is such a hard problem to solve, no one wants to force elderly people to move because of a bull real estate market, but you also need young hard working people in your city for economic growth. My solution would be to jack up the real estate inheritance tax and allocate that money for public transportation and affordable housing.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#212

Post by vonnik » Fri, Feb 12, 2016, 7:29 PM UTC

acchow wrote: post #163

vonnik wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should look more closely at Manhattan and SF. There is a ton of speculation, luxury highrises, and out-of-town wealthy buying second-, third- or fifth homes.

You really don't see any empty homes in SF...

I don't think we have a lot of transparency on the how often the tenants and owners of luxury apartments are actually inhabiting them.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#213

Post by refurb » Fri, Feb 12, 2016, 7:29 PM UTC

throwaway2048 wrote: post #208

refurb wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't get a passport, you get a Permanent Resident Card.

Which then allows you to get a passport....

If you move to Canada and maintain residency for X number of years.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#214

Post by sandworm101 » Fri, Feb 12, 2016, 7:29 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #203

stanmancan wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. A significant portion of the housing is being bought by foreign investors who don't even live here. Not only is it raising the pricing of the housing, but you don't get the economic benefit of said wealthy individuals living in the city. I recall reading an article about a local coffee shop. A number of new buildings were built around it, all residential condo's. The condo's in the buildings were comple…

A significant portion of the housing is being bought by foreign investors who don't even live here What evidence is there that foreign ownership is a major problem? I've heard plenty of anecdotes, but no actual data. I do know that Vancouver real estate agents are milking the "yellow peril" for all it's worth. "Buy now before China owns all of Vancouver!". Don't forget there is a ton of speculation going on by Canadi…

From the OP >> ...absentee foreign ownership and empty condos, which are said to account for nearly 25 per cent of units in certain neighbourhoods.

There are parts of Vancouver that are just dead. Rush hour now sees more carpenters and real estate agents commuting into these residential areas each morning than commute out. Places like the North Shore are essentially industrial zones manufacturing real estate prices. The people who live there (me) talk of empty neighborhoods populated only by retirees, every other house either under construction or sitting empty.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#215

Post by eigenvector » Fri, Feb 12, 2016, 7:32 PM UTC

rchaud wrote: post #207

eigenvector wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Now-defunct Canadian Immigrant Investor program allowed you to buy permanent resident status in Canada, thus avoiding any potential future tax discrimination against foreigners. Unlike the US Green Card, Canadian PR status is permanent, affords all the privileges of citizenship except voting, and can never be revoked, even if you join a foreign army to fight Canada. A similar incarnation of this program still exis…

>Canadian PR status is permanent.... and can never be revoked That is incorrect. It can be revoked if the PR does not remain in Canada for at least 2 years of a 5 year period after it was issued. After the 5 year mark, most PRs have already transitioned to citizenship. http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=727&...

You are correct. PRs must be in Canada for 2 of every 5 years, unless they obtain citizenship. I apologize for the error.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#216

Post by didip » Fri, Feb 12, 2016, 7:33 PM UTC

api_or_ipa wrote: post #55

As someone who just moved from Vancouver to the Bay Area, it's obvious the issue isn't housing. It's income. My apartment in trendy yaletown was $2350/month for a very nice 2 bed, 2 bath place within 10 mins of anything in downtown. Try finding something even remotely as nice around Silicon Valley. The issue we should be tackling is the low wages seen in the area. The same developer who could make $100k USD in the va…

This is just anecdotal, but that price point at the quality you want is possible in downtown San Jose.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#217

Post by fiatmoney » Fri, Feb 12, 2016, 7:34 PM UTC

gorkemyurt wrote: post #211

One of the main reasons of the housing crisis in the Bay Area is Prop 13 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_13_(197... ) Prop 13 basically keeps the property taxes constant (or 1% increase) as the value of your house increases (doubles or triples). Your tax gets re-calculated only if you sell your house and the new owner starts paying potentially multiples of what the previous owner has been payin…

Prop 13 has nothing to do with real estate price inflation. If anything, shifting of property tax burdens from long-time homeowners to new homeowners would tend to suppress prices. Shifting that burden evenly across the population would tend to cause more churn as long-time homeowners get pushed out, but would do nothing to increase aggregate housing or lower aggregate prices.

Although, you can get pretty far into the weeds trying to evaluate the effect of housing stability on political economy - NIMBYism would be expected to be stronger in longer-tenure populations, for instance.

Stability of tax policy is a fantastic thing for encouraging long-term investment.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#218

Post by thebokehwokeh2 » Fri, Feb 12, 2016, 7:35 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #203

stanmancan wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. A significant portion of the housing is being bought by foreign investors who don't even live here. Not only is it raising the pricing of the housing, but you don't get the economic benefit of said wealthy individuals living in the city. I recall reading an article about a local coffee shop. A number of new buildings were built around it, all residential condo's. The condo's in the buildings were comple…

A significant portion of the housing is being bought by foreign investors who don't even live here What evidence is there that foreign ownership is a major problem? I've heard plenty of anecdotes, but no actual data. I do know that Vancouver real estate agents are milking the "yellow peril" for all it's worth. "Buy now before China owns all of Vancouver!". Don't forget there is a ton of speculation going on by Canadi…

In the west end, it really is "yellow peril". I am asian myself, but I contribute to the economy as a job provider. Speculators are the reason for the impending ghost town that is Vancouver.

http://www.nationalpost.com/m/wp/blog.html?b=news.nationalpo...

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#219

Post by zanny » Fri, Feb 12, 2016, 7:37 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #91

zanny wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to just see a return to homesteading period. If a property goes unused / unoccupied for a year, anyone can move in. No more land squatting to drive up real estate prices and use it as a store of wealth. Yes, this kills real estate as a long term investment. No, that is a good thing, we should collectively much rather see capital invested in the stock market rather than being thrown into precious metals or pr…

Homesteading is giving unclaimed land new residents. What you're talking about is squatter's rights.

Except I'm not - there already exist squatters rights to occupy someones elses property and eventually claim it their own if they can avoid detection long enough.

All that takes is the minimum effort to police the property you own to insure nobody is squatting. What I'm saying is that unconditionally whether or not someone is illegally occupying your property you only have a fixed amount of time to make use of it before it effectively becomes unclaimed land again.

Re: Without affordable housing, Vancouver risks becoming an economic ghost town

#220

Post by thescriptkiddie » Fri, Feb 12, 2016, 7:37 PM UTC

msvan wrote: post #82

It seems like many major cities of the world are experiencing this problem, and no city has been able to come up with a good solution. It always leads to displacement and newspaper articles about displacement, but no real solutions. Here are a couple of solutions: 1. Build really tall. Hasn't worked out all that great in Hong Kong, though. 2. Rent control. This is often unfair and inflates price of non-rent controlle…

> Rent control. This is often unfair and inflates price of non-rent controlled apartments.

There's the rub. Virtually all rent control schemes in North America only apply to a subset of properties (usually the shitty ones), which isn't fair and often doesn't work. Meanwhile, Germany has a long history of successful rent control, perhaps not coincidentally because it applies universally.