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Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

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Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#211

Post by dang »

bgilroy26 wrote: post #41

I love Perl [I have been to perl monger meetings and I had to look up how to 'unshift' in python today]. But Python3 is mostly just Python2 with a print function instead of a print keyword. It is occasionally non-trivial to port large existing code bases from Python2 to Python3, but it is practically always trivial for a Python2 programmer to write new code in Python3. I hope Perl 6 will get its own camel book!

We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10342663 and marked it off-topic.

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#212

Post by wycats »

brudgers wrote: post #63

"If that's what it takes to make Ruby programmers happy..." Completely brilliant.

It's unnecessarily condescending, especially given that Ruby got `?` and `!` suffixes from Lisp, which far predates Ruby, and that Ruby itself is in many ways a descendent of Perl.

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#213

Post by mst »

kbenson wrote: post #198
mst wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wut? I just complimented the code you posted, and changed my mind from "the unconstructive guy upthread said trivial, which it isn't, but steve's been kind enough to give me enough information to see it's trivial if I write a port of CMM, and said port is basically identical rather than requiring the crappy alias approach". I've genuinely no idea why you think I was being condescending.

I don't know where steveklabnik hails from, but in the US "cute" is sometimes meant with a condescending overtone. I seem to recall you are from the UK (Scotland?) from the last YAPC I was at, so I suspect this is a dialect difference causing a misunderstanding.

Oooh. Yes. In the above comment, "very cute" should be read as being said genuinely in an approving voice with a big grin, and exactly zero sarcasm.

This may be the first time (yeah, English, but do wear a kilt a fair bit) I've ever run into a problem with an American overdetecting sarcasm.

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#214

Post by niccaluim »

esaym wrote: post #175
ionforce wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Perl is awesome for writing big programs in. This isn't even remotely true. No static types, no thank you. Runtime errors due to misspelled methods? Missing hash keys? Hilarious. Boy, I hope this scalar isn't undefined!

Compile time checks are not a replacement for a good test suite.

And a good test suite is no replacement for being able to express invariants in your code. They are complementary tools.

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#215

Post by mst »

Mithaldu wrote: post #178
steveklabnik wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not interested in being condescended to, so

mst might speak for himself at another time, but i have a personal reason to post, so i will say this: Please do not take this conversation as an affront and throw away what has so far come of it. It has shown you, and Ruby at large, an API that has been proven to be good and useful, and the Ruby community has come up with a way to implement it in a generalized way. I hope to someday be able to learn Ruby and use its…

Steve and I had a previous similar conversation; this one got further subject wise, but the original was also a fair few posts deep and we didn't accidentally piss each other off that time.

Pretty sure we'll manage to resolve the confusion shortly.

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#216

Post by wycats »

mst wrote: post #213
kbenson wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know where steveklabnik hails from, but in the US "cute" is sometimes meant with a condescending overtone. I seem to recall you are from the UK (Scotland?) from the last YAPC I was at, so I suspect this is a dialect difference causing a misunderstanding.

Oooh. Yes. In the above comment, "very cute" should be read as being said genuinely in an approving voice with a big grin, and exactly zero sarcasm. This may be the first time (yeah, English, but do wear a kilt a fair bit) I've ever run into a problem with an American overdetecting sarcasm.

For what it's worth, I completely agree with the "crappy alias" thing, and wrote a lot about this topic back when I was working on Rails full time (example: http://yehudakatz.com/2009/03/06/alias_method_chain-in-model...).

Ruby eventually added `prepend`, which I demonstrated upthread, and is a genuinely generic, in-language solution to the problem you're talking about.

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#217

Post by wycats »

wycats wrote: post #216
mst wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oooh. Yes. In the above comment, "very cute" should be read as being said genuinely in an approving voice with a big grin, and exactly zero sarcasm. This may be the first time (yeah, English, but do wear a kilt a fair bit) I've ever run into a problem with an American overdetecting sarcasm.

For what it's worth, I completely agree with the "crappy alias" thing, and wrote a lot about this topic back when I was working on Rails full time (example: http://yehudakatz.com/2009/03/06/alias_method_chain-in-model... ). Ruby eventually added `prepend`, which I demonstrated upthread, and is a genuinely generic, in-language solution to the problem you're talking about.

I dug up my original proposal from 2009, which eventually landed in Ruby 2.0: http://blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat.rb/ruby/ruby-core/...

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#218

Post by BuckRogers »

Mithaldu wrote: post #61
smithkl42 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Python's transition actually was much better, that says quite a bit about how awful the Perl transition is gonna be - since the Python 2->3 transition seems pretty widely acknowledged to be a disaster.

There is not and will not be a transition. It is a completely new and different language.

Which is exactly what Python should have done. Call Python3 a new language and not try to kill/degrade Python2 but have both live on... which they will anyway regardless.

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#219

Post by austinjp »

code_sterling wrote: post #98
bgilroy26 wrote: post #41

I love Perl [I have been to perl monger meetings and I had to look up how to 'unshift' in python today]. But Python3 is mostly just Python2 with a print function instead of a print keyword. It is occasionally non-trivial to port large existing code bases from Python2 to Python3, but it is practically always trivial for a Python2 programmer to write new code in Python3. I hope Perl 6 will get its own camel book!

I'd love it if there was, I'd love to kick a couple bucks to Randal after hearing he lost his house.

He lost his house? That sucks. Was that related to his felony charges? Like many others here I feel quite an affinity to the Perl community, sad to hear about that.

Re: Larry Wall Unveils Perl 6.0.0

#220

Post by blub »

bgilroy26 wrote: post #41

I love Perl [I have been to perl monger meetings and I had to look up how to 'unshift' in python today]. But Python3 is mostly just Python2 with a print function instead of a print keyword. It is occasionally non-trivial to port large existing code bases from Python2 to Python3, but it is practically always trivial for a Python2 programmer to write new code in Python3. I hope Perl 6 will get its own camel book!

Not quite. I recently ported a script from Perl (which I can barely read) to Python (I used to know 2 pretty well) and took the opportunity to see what the differences between 2 and 3 are.

There's a pretty big page of changes, rules for maintaining compatibility and suggestions and it pretty much killed all my enthusiasm.

I'm speaking from memory and might be wrong, but one annoying thing was that I couldn't detect the Python version and print an error message, instead the P2 interpreter would throw an error at runtime when encountering a P3 construct.

There are many nice P3 books and libraries, but 2 vs 3 is still a PITA.

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