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Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

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Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#211

Post by rconti »

mgraczyk wrote: post #152

Not sure how they generated that stress-level map, but it seems to be an unreasonably simplistic approximation. For example, there is a dedicated bike path along the 101 from the region marked "North Bayshore" all the way past the top-left corner of the map. That entire stretch is less stressful than any place south of El Camino. By extension, most of northern Palo Alto should be dark green instead of yellow and pale…

I used to bike commute on rare occasions from near Levi stadium up to around where Oracle is in Redwood Shores. I don't remember a dedicated bike path along 101 at North Bayshore. I'd usually leave Moffet, cross under 101, go up Middlefield to Rengstorff, then ride past Google, turn left, past Intuit, then follow East Bayshore (the road) the entire way until I cut through EPA towards what is now Facebook HQ (used to be Sun).

Has something changed?

Also, the trails they show up by the bay are all super-optimstic. First of all, I think they're pretty much all gravel, they meander all over the place, and they don't GO ANYWHERE.

I live off of Marsh now and my commute involves more East Bayshore, cutting through Pete's Harbor, saying hi to the homeless people under 101, riding over the pedestrian bridge by the VW dealer, etc. I'm actually fairly lucky in that I have little traffic on my commute, but it's not exactly low-stress with a few high-traffic crossings. The worst is crossing 101 at Marsh. There's a hidden crosswalk to cross 3 lanes of the highway 84 onramp onto 101. I hate that traffic engineers decided to use the shortest-distance method and hide EVERY crosswalk behind a blind corner.. especially those on FREEWAYS, for god's sake. And then, it's pitch black at night...

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#212

Post by roflchoppa »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #87
buro9 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sure, you're never going to get people who live 15 or 20 miles out biking the whole way to work That's what I do every day in London. Why wouldn't you? Myself and a lot of my friends choose our housing approx' 45 minutes to an hour away from the centre of London just to ensure we've got a good ride every day. At a commuter average of 16mph, and an experienced cyclist average of 18/19mph means that 15 to 20 miles is…

> That's what I do every day in London. Why wouldn't you? Well, I personally might be willing to if the infrastructure was good enough (I'd probably get an eBike to speed things up), and other confident riders might. I just mean most people wouldn't, it's too far.

dude those eBikes are sick, i was going like 22 mph down the street cruising. i would get one if i biked everywhere.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#213

Post by TulliusCicero »

praneshp wrote: post #138
TulliusCicero wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wolfe has protected lanes all through, I used to bike on that. I have no idea what you're talking about. I bike across Wolfe on Evelyn all the time and have seen no protected bike lanes on it. I just checked Street View on a handful of different parts of Wolfe and I see zero protected bike lanes, and it says the data is from this year. You're talking about Wolfe Rd that crosses Caltrain and goes next to Vallco righ…

Very sorry, I had "protected bike lanes" and "dedicated bike lanes" confused. Thanks!

No problem, protected bike lanes are a relatively recent innovation in the states, and up until recently they usually went by the term "cycle tracks", but turns out that "protected bike lane" is a much easier-to-understand name.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#215

Post by rconti »

Bahamut wrote: post #188
TulliusCicero wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love this comment because it illustrates perfectly the cognitive dissonance going on. People everywhere talk about how drivers in their area are like, so, so bad, but nobody ever suggests that we halt investing in car infrastructure until they get better. And that's a good thing: you don't stop investing in a vital public good just because it's sometimes abused. That applies to bikes as much as cars.

I have far more problems with bikers in the area than cars - the close encounter rate is quite high, largely because a lot of bikers don't have good control over their bikes or because they don't care at all about pedestrians and are willing to run them over to force them out of the way. I'm quite amazed I haven't been hit by a biker yet to be honest, some even talking on their cellphones held in one hand while drivi…

I know you're speaking more of bike/pedestrian conflicts, but that's not an issue on my commute, so I can't speak to it.

Every single law I break as a cyclist benefits drivers as well as myself. It's the lack of infrastructure that makes it safer for me to hop from bike lane to sidewalk rather than follow the bike lane which magically reappears on the OTHER SIDE OF A LANE OF TRAFFIC on a 40mph arterial. It's the lack of infrastructure that makes me prefer to go from road to crosswalk (or cut across an entire road when it looks safe) instead of forcing all of the motorists and their precious steeds to have to accordion up and slow for me as I try to make my way across the 3 lanes of traffic to the left turn lane when I need to turn.

Additionally, every single law I break exposes me to 100% of the legal risk, and anything a driver might consider "unsafe" is putting 100% of the risk of bodily harm on myself, not on the observer in the car.

I say all of this as a car and motorcycle enthusiast with an avowed need for speed. But the reality is that the car-centric view of the roads has to change.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#216

Post by openfuture »

gamblor956 wrote: post #183
nickbauman wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Minnesota it's common that suburban "subdivision" neighborhoods don't even have pedestrian sidewalks. And the inhabitants think that's a good thing. I cannot even.

It snows quite heavily in Minnesota, so during much of the year those sidewalks would be unusable or hazardous.

There are ways of dealing with snow on sidewalks. Just because they require upkeep some part of the year doesn't excuse not having any.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#217

Post by defen »

tmalsburg2 wrote: post #167
sliverstorm wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many, many people: - do not have showers at work - do not have safe routes to ride - are not experienced cyclists - average more like 10mph The discussion is not "how do we get hardcore bike nuts to ride to work". That's not hard.

I find it hilarious that Americans made it to the moon but think that commuting to work by bike is practically impossible. Meanwhile millions of people all over the rest of the world, from school children to seniors, are doing just that every single day. I moved to southern California last year (from the UK) and of course I ride my bike to work. My colleagues think that this is a really strange thing to do and some r…

> some regularly lecture me about how dangerous that is

I think this is a case of the "vivid example" fallacy. People can easily envision the carnage caused by a bike-car collision. Less easily imagined is the health toll wreaked by 500+ hours / year commuting in a car.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#218

Post by scoot »

nickbauman wrote: post #176
rwhitman wrote: post #160

Retrofitting American suburban sprawl to be less car-centric is going to be one of the enduring puzzles of the 21st century. The suburban model of planning championed in the 50's onwards became so deeply embedded in development projects and just the entire culture of small city planning across the country that a huge chunk of Americans are completely unaware that a less car-centric lifestyle is even possible, let alo…

Here in Minnesota it's common that suburban "subdivision" neighborhoods don't even have pedestrian sidewalks. And the inhabitants think that's a good thing. I cannot even.

Having tried to walk from a business hotel in Roseville Minnesota to the nearest restaurant I discovered just this - and passing motorists looked at me like I was bonkers!

Heck, you couldn't even get from the hotel to the adjacent office block without walking on the road, or cutting across scrub.

Santa Clara is only marginally better. However retrofitting cycle lanes is a much easier prospect than retrofitting sidewalks, and crossings.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#219

Post by bertil »

hyperion2010 wrote: post #62

Based on the photo at the bottom they are going to fail the same way that many other US cities have failed when trying install bike lanes. You MUST put the parked cars between moving traffic and bikes. If you do not bikers are going to get hit and doored and will obstruct turn lanes. Pretty much everywhere in Europe gets this right. Traffic -> parking -> bikes -> peds. How did the US get everything completely backwar…

I lived for ten years in a street that had that design for historical reasons (rue de Rivoli, designed by Napoleon to fck over the aristocracy from the previous regime, and has an odd half-private status).

For bikes, the result is that I got right-hooked into daily, got my bike crushed weekly (I used rentals), and ended up twice in the hospital. Unless you physically crush every car that tries to turn right, they will* T-bone every bike there is. This is, without exaggeration a way to kill a significant portion of your riders. Once again, the alternative is making turning right physically impossible to cars.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#220

Post by Tsagadai »

gamblor956 wrote: post #183
nickbauman wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Minnesota it's common that suburban "subdivision" neighborhoods don't even have pedestrian sidewalks. And the inhabitants think that's a good thing. I cannot even.

It snows quite heavily in Minnesota, so during much of the year those sidewalks would be unusable or hazardous.

In my experience, driving is less safe than walking in snow. Granted I am still fairly young and fit so falling over is not a serious or life threatening concern. Road users significantly overestimate their ability to drive on difficult terrain and chances of accidents are greatly increased.
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