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What we break when we fix ad blocking

tonyhaile.com

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Re: What we break when we fix ad blocking

#211

Post by kuschku »

powertower wrote: post #203
kuschku wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we PLEASE stop posting stuff that is US-only? Solving an issue only in the US does NOT help the world.

The "either help everyone or help no one" mentality helps --> no one. Also consider that usually a problem has to be solved in your garage before it's solved globally. Other times the situation is that there are external barriers (such massive fraud, incompatible laws, etc) and issues (such as the market not being developed enough yet, little to no demand, etc) that prevent the local solution getting scaled out to a…

It's annoying when there are countries that have the ability to use it – like NFC is everywhere accepted, but no one has a system that uses it yet – but the US-only solution on HN is presented as "solves all issues, everywhere".

Or, at the point where we are, just put a "US-only" banner at the top. Because that’s the case. Most solutions here could be implemented far more easy in countries across Europe than in the US, but they are implemented in the US, and only the US. Despite demand.

Like Netflix only in 2014 for most of Europe, and then complaining that europeans pirate all the movies.

Re: What we break when we fix ad blocking

#212

Post by kuschku »

ifdefdebug wrote: post #193
kuschku wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we need relevant ads. If I’m watching a let's play on YouTube, I don't care about buying crayola crayons. If you’d present me an ad for the game the player plays, on the other hand, I’d probably buy it. Maybe even give the youtuber like a 2% cut of the sales.

Allow your browser to store cookies between sessions and keep it signed in at G, T and F and you'll get relevant ads. I personally prefer ad blockers.

No, relevant ads based on the content of the page, not based on your browsing behaviour.

Google Ads based on browsing behaviour only try to sell you stuff that you already bought and no longer need. By the point the ad shows you graphics cards, like for me right now, I already bought one. When I was searching for one, the ads were showing me crayola crayons instead.

Make relevant ads based on what the person needs right now. No need for cookies or any tracking.

Re: What we break when we fix ad blocking

#213

Post by LeoNatan25 »

ifdefdebug wrote: post #193
kuschku wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we need relevant ads. If I’m watching a let's play on YouTube, I don't care about buying crayola crayons. If you’d present me an ad for the game the player plays, on the other hand, I’d probably buy it. Maybe even give the youtuber like a 2% cut of the sales.

Allow your browser to store cookies between sessions and keep it signed in at G, T and F and you'll get relevant ads. I personally prefer ad blockers.

No! If the OP is on a "Let's play" video, a relevant ad is about a similar video game, computer hardware, etc. The version of "relevant ads" is a tracked ads, where he would see a sex toy ad on the video because he looked for sex toys the day before. But that is not a relevant ad to the content consumed.

Re: What we break when we fix ad blocking

#214

Post by solistice »

kuschku wrote: post #181
frik wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need better ads, e.g. a comeback of the traditional banner ads where ads where just a single picture with a link. If you really need a video ad, create a small size mp4 movie and add a link, e.g. 70KB for 30s video. But nowadays ads are too overblown with huge JS code, invasive behaviors, and still a lot of flash animations and videos. Basically the current situation is the fault of many advertisement networks tha…

And we need relevant ads. If I’m watching a let's play on YouTube, I don't care about buying crayola crayons. If you’d present me an ad for the game the player plays, on the other hand, I’d probably buy it. Maybe even give the youtuber like a 2% cut of the sales.

The thing about that is that targeting, even with all the personal data advertisers get acess to, is still hard work and never 100% accurate. Also it assumes that most advertisers know how to work the controls, which sadly does not seem to be the case.

The best kind of advertising is invisible to those uninterested and visible to those that stand to benefit from the offer. Most good online advertising systems are incentivized towards that, but then schools incentivize towards good grades, and they don't produce one examplary student after another.

Part of the problem may be the esteem of the profession. No kid tells himself "I want to work on PPC optimization and better Ad Targeting". It's a terrible pity a profession that handles informing consumers about goods offered is so shrouded in ignorance. How many brilliant products designed by even more brilliant engineers failed in the cradle because nobody ever found out about them, or the ones that did couldn't make out their use? Because when you build a better mousetrap...you've got a better mousetrap and the world keeps using the ones they have.

Also that 2% cut of sales would be there if the youtuber were to post an affiliate link.

Re: What we break when we fix ad blocking

#215

Post by kuschku »

solistice wrote: post #214
kuschku wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we need relevant ads. If I’m watching a let's play on YouTube, I don't care about buying crayola crayons. If you’d present me an ad for the game the player plays, on the other hand, I’d probably buy it. Maybe even give the youtuber like a 2% cut of the sales.

The thing about that is that targeting, even with all the personal data advertisers get acess to, is still hard work and never 100% accurate. Also it assumes that most advertisers know how to work the controls, which sadly does not seem to be the case. The best kind of advertising is invisible to those uninterested and visible to those that stand to benefit from the offer. Most good online advertising systems are inc…

Yes, exactly what I mean. Use more affiliate networks instead of advertising for useless products.

Re: What we break when we fix ad blocking

#216

Post by solistice »

kuschku wrote: post #215
solistice wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about that is that targeting, even with all the personal data advertisers get acess to, is still hard work and never 100% accurate. Also it assumes that most advertisers know how to work the controls, which sadly does not seem to be the case. The best kind of advertising is invisible to those uninterested and visible to those that stand to benefit from the offer. Most good online advertising systems are inc…

Yes, exactly what I mean. Use more affiliate networks instead of advertising for useless products.

Well, that'd be an idea, but it puts the decision cost in the hand of the content creators instead of that of advertisers. They suddenly have to make decisions for what products are appropriate for their audience, or more likely, what'll result in the largest cut. They won't neccesairly be much more efficient at it either.

And it won't neccesairily lead to less obtrusive advertising.

Useless products seems a little harsh, since a truly useless product wouldn't survive for long. You might view them as useless, but then a high schooler might not know what to do with a cisco rack, and say the same thing. Which means cisco shouldn't advertise their products to highschoolers (for the most part).

Re: What we break when we fix ad blocking

#217

Post by cbd1984 »

look_lookatme wrote: post #169

If you use an ad blocker and consume content supported by ads, you are a thief. It may be the best case scenario for your security, time, etc and there are cases where thievery is justified, but you are a thief nonetheless.

Then the mute button on my TV's remote is a more effective tool of theft than a Colt .45.

Re: What we break when we fix ad blocking

#218

Post by kuschku »

solistice wrote: post #216
kuschku wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, exactly what I mean. Use more affiliate networks instead of advertising for useless products.

Well, that'd be an idea, but it puts the decision cost in the hand of the content creators instead of that of advertisers. They suddenly have to make decisions for what products are appropriate for their audience, or more likely, what'll result in the largest cut. They won't neccesairly be much more efficient at it either. And it won't neccesairily lead to less obtrusive advertising. Useless products seems a little h…

The way Google advertising works today is not effective at all. By the time you get an ad for a product, you always have already bought it.

The products that are advertised might not be useless, but the current advertisement bubble will hopefully fail soon.

Re: What we break when we fix ad blocking

#219

Post by makomk »

gress wrote: post #176
makomk wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither desktop Chrome nor desktop Firefox are pushing their own, competing method of distributing content that can't be adblocked and that they take a 30% cut on. Also, Firefox at least didn't intentionally add support for adblocking, they just had a powerful add-on system and didn't deliberately stop it. Apple is deliberately adding support for it on the web whilst pushing people to distribution channels they contr…

Separating out 'Desktop Chrome' from Android makes this a deliberate Apple's to Oranges comparison. They are both Google products. You're free to run 'Desktop Chrome' or Firefox on Apple's 'Deskrop' computers. Nothing anticompetitive there.

Desktop Chrome is the only version of Chrome that actually supports adblocking. The Android version doesn't have any add-on support at all.

Re: What we break when we fix ad blocking

#220

Post by frik »

kuschku wrote: post #212
ifdefdebug wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Allow your browser to store cookies between sessions and keep it signed in at G, T and F and you'll get relevant ads. I personally prefer ad blockers.

No, relevant ads based on the content of the page, not based on your browsing behaviour. Google Ads based on browsing behaviour only try to sell you stuff that you already bought and no longer need. By the point the ad shows you graphics cards, like for me right now, I already bought one. When I was searching for one, the ads were showing me crayola crayons instead. Make relevant ads based on what the person needs ri…

Exactly, ads should be relevant to page content. Showing me afs based on my browsing history is downright wrong and feels etremly creepy, plus most items we already own by the time we see such ads anyway.
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