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Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled

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Re: Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled

#211
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please note that the manifest id above (cw5n1h2txyewy) may change if they update the app rendering the rule invalid.

That looks to be a publisher id in use since Windows 8.

I'm not sure it is universally consistent with that. I saw it change for a Metro app in Windows 8.1.

Re: Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled

#212
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a desktop OS, try OpenBSD, Slackware Linux, Debian, or Arch Linux, or if those are too obtuse (they can be difficult for the uninitiated to get into) try Ubuntu or Linux Mint. If you go with Ubuntu you'll want to go to the Security & Privacy tab and disable online search results and tracking. For a smartphone, you have to dig back into the past and find a Nokia N900 or an old-school BlackBerry; anything based on…

> For a desktop OS, try OpenBSD, Slackware Linux, Debian, or Arch Linux, > or if those are too obtuse (they can be difficult for the uninitiated to get into) try Ubuntu or Linux Mint. For the uninitiated I'd cut to the chase and go straight to Linux Mint, there's just less to contend with. Some time after initiation, depending on interests and needs, maybe work your way back up the stream to Ubuntu or Debian, or port…

You're probably right, I was thinking back to my first real Linux learning curve with Slackware around 2000-2001. I dived in head-first and I'm glad I did, what I learned doing that built a foundation that has served me well.

Re: Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled

#213

As time goes by, computer software begins to feel more and more hostile to the user. When I installed Windows 10, all the privacy settings made me feel like I was wrangling a beast rather than setting up something that would help me. I don't know if there's any solution or if privacy is just a remnant of the past. Is Linux any better? And is there any way to own a smartphone which is built not to leak my information,…

> Is Linux any better? The Iceweasel bug that downloaded some icons silently on the first run was a big deal few days ago. The problem was that iceweasel doesn't ship the search icons with the package (legal reasons maybe), so it downloads them on the first run [1]. [1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2015/07/msg00226.html And this is considered a bug that will be fixed. Compare this to the privacy issues on an…

I can't read your link unfortunately (get an SSL error when trying to connect), but that's interesting, given the sheer amount of trackable requests firefox makes silently in the background (like safe search/content blacklists from google, etc). Based on the goals stated by the iceweasel project, I assume they have not patched those things (as their goal is to be firefox-without-trademarks and nothing more).

I'm really disappointed in mozilla's track record on privacy. They always seem to choose features over privacy. See for example all of the patches sent by the Tor Browser developers for various info leaks that have been rejected as they would be inconvenient for average users.

It really seems quite pointless to work on a leak like this when there's so many others in the upstream that they refuse to patch (even if they have understandable reasons).

Re: Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled

#214

This also happens on iOS with spotlight. As far as I can tell there's no way to turn it off. Source: MITM your iOS traffic. Sidenote -- a possibly unforeseen side effect of end to end encryption everywhere is that it makes it far more difficult to man in the middle your traffic and hold companies accountable for their privacy policies.

a possibly unforeseen side effect of end to end encryption everywhere is that it makes it far more difficult to man in the middle your traffic and hold companies accountable for their privacy policies

I don't think it's an unforseen effect, but one that is highly downplayed by advocates pushing the security angle. When it was revealed that smart TVs phoned home with detailed viewing information, including filenames, I remember making a similar comment - if they had used TLS, that discovery might not have occurred.

The ability to MITM your own devices is very important, if only so you can figure out exactly what they're sending out.

Another thing is the widespread use of enforced code signing, accompanied by pinning to specific (e.g. MS) CAs; if this had happened a decade or more ago, it would've been pretty easy to pinpoint the parts of the OS responsible and just patch them out. Now the same thing is likely still possible (theoretically, as long as you can change any byte on the disk it is), but involves plenty of bypassing other protection mechanisms on the way and could get pretty hairy if hardware is involved (e.g. secure boot/TPM.) From this perspective, remote attestation and the other upcoming security technologies are immensely disturbing. The desktop PC ecosystem is gradually being locked-down in the same way that mobile is.

These security mechanisms certainly have benefits, but their goal is ensuring that your software is completely unchanged from what the author wants you to have; in situations like these, that is precisely what you don't want. Nevertheless, I hope the hackers/crackers out there find a solution so those that are forced to use Win10 can still retain some privacy.

Re: Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled

#215
post #33
post #8

Reminds me of when canononical did something similar with ubuntu and extended searching your applications to searching merchandise on amazon and other stores. It's really funny when you open the start menu equivalent at work to launch the terminal* and as you type "t" you get to see items you can buy - one of them being "The Simpsons". Genius. * before you complain I use the start menu to launch the terminal: I never…

This behaviour bit me in the ass in work today. Had a new Mac, just installed Polycom (our video conferencing program), typed Polyc out of habit in spotlight to launch it, ended up on the wikipedia page for polycystic ovarian syndrome...

With Ubuntu, I had tried to launch brasero, the CD burning application, so I start typing 'bra...' and start seeing ads for women's bras. Thanks Ubuntu, that's helpful.

Re: Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty simple if the OS you're using allows you to install a trusted root CA certificate.

Except apps like this should probably not be using the OS CA store, and instead just pin their own CA cert. Doesn't seem to be the case here but in general I think pinning is getting more adoption, isn't it?

And it would break at any corporation that does a MITM on their own employees to monitor SSL traffic.

Re: Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled

#217
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On my Mac I use Little Snitch to monitor outbound connections and I love it. I haven't found an equivalent simple and lightweight application for Windows yet.

Oh man, I am racking my brain trying to think of the tool I used to have installed on my PC at my last job. It was built by somebody who posted on HN, lightsomething or something? It would warn you about new programs connecting to the network and do other neat stuff. Not quite the same as little snitch, but similar and very pleasant to use. I'll update if I think of it (or maybe somebody else can name it.) [edit] Gla…

eghad recommended glasswire to me yesterday as a "solid" alternative.

Re: Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled

#218

There may be too much paranoia here. I installed Windows 10. I turned off Cortana web search so it now only searches for stuff on my laptop. Convenient. I also turned off all camera and microphone use. Easy enough to turn on if I need it. Search for "privacy settings"' hit the first link and turn off what you want. (I turned off just about everything.) I think that as long as I use privacy badger in my web browsers,…

There may be too much paranoia here. The thing is, I don't think avoiding Windows 10 is an overreaction at this point. The default behaviour is highly intrusive. The accompanying privacy policy makes it clear that Microsoft are allowing themselves to hoover up large amounts of personal data. (The first warning sign is that desktop software even needs a privacy policy.) The new business model, starting with giving Win…

> The new business model, starting with giving Windows 10 away for free

There isn't a new business model, and Microsoft is not giving Windows 10 away for free. What it is offering is a free upgrade to Windows 10 to people who have paid for Windows 7 or 8. This isn't really any different from iOS and Android users getting free upgrades on devices they have also paid for. It's what people expect.

> Finally, for most users, updates are now automatic and can't be turned off. That means any workarounds that are contrary to Microsoft's new business model can simply be turned off remotely by Microsoft.

You can't turn off updates to Gmail or Facebook either. Same goes for most mobile apps. Or your Chromebook.

What has changed is that Microsoft is building a cross-platform mobile ecosystem in which Windows 10 is a mobile operating system. Think: cloud-first, mobile-first, and Software as a Service. (Windows 10 will run on phones.)

Now, I'm not saying that the permissions required in Windows 10 are right. What I am saying is that the permissions suitable for a cloud-based cross-platform ecosystem* with a built-in intelligent agent and deep learning (AI) capabilities are not the same as the ones required by an old-fashioned standalone operating system, and should be evaluated in that context.

* Windows 10 devices (phones, tablets, PCs, games consoles), OneDrive, Azure, Office 365 (PCs, Macs, tablets, smartphones), Windows Store, Bing, and dozens of apps on Windows 10, iOS and Android etc. This is comparable to the iOS and Android ecosystems, not to standalone Linux.

Re: Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled

#219

Here's a list of servers Windows 10 contacts on startup. There are probably more, but these are the ones that showed up. BN1WNS2011508.wns.windows.com OneSettings-bn2.metron.live.com.nsatc.net a978.i6g1.akamai.net americas2.notify.windows.com.akadns.net any.edge.bing.com bingads.microsoft.com bl3302.storage.live.com bl3302geo.storage.dkyprod.akadns.net client.wns.windows.com corp.sts.microsoft.com diagnostics.support…

The only host i expected to see is not even there...

time.windows.com

Re: Windows 10 phones home when you search your start menu, even with Bing disabled

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opting into a FF program is voluntarily exchanging your personal info and loyalty to a brand for benefits in pricing. How is that the same as an OS uploading your information from a local search by default in an opt-out model? I'm really not trying to be snarky, I genuinely think I'm missing some point here.

I don't think this is a defining difference here. Sure, doing something by default without telling the customer seems sneaky, but its impact is small in comparison to other leaky privacy products most people use. What I understand about the matter, the information sent is a regularly regenerated random ID and some machine information. Compare that with a Tesco's Clubcard or Walmart's Credit Card: given the informatio…

Most of the stuff complained about in Windows 10 was already in Windows 8 (except Cortana), but "the pop-privacy crowd" has only just discovered it, apparently ;-)
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