I quit the tech industry • Hacker News Board

Re: I quit the tech industry

#201

Post by DougWebb » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 2:15 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #161

seivan wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went through this. Not sure what toxic culture entails, but fucked up deadlines burned me out. Why do all software companies rush so hard.

There are 2 reasons: 1) Developers cannot reliably estimate software timelines. That often comes with experience and age, but many never learn that skill. It is a skill like programming itself. It comes with practice. 2) Break down in communication between management (product managers) and engineers who are writing code. On the first part. Usually junior software developers simply have not had experience shipping sof…

I've spent a lot of time thinking about why software projects go over budget so often. I think that developer estimation only plays a minor role, and the big problem is failure to manage project scope.

I'm specifically talking about projects which go like this:

1) A set of high-level business requirements are put together, and given to a tech lead to estimate.

2) The tech lead's estimate, based on the requirements as-given, is used to determine a budget for the project, and probably a schedule as well.

3) Once the budget and schedule are approved, the project commences.

4) As development begins detailed software requirements are worked out, which usually exposes holes in the high-level business requirements that need to be fleshed out as well.

5) The estimates are never updated, and any attempt to increase the budget due to the new requirements are seen as a sign of failure.

What I see happening in #4 is two kinds of scope creep. The first kind is the sort everyone is familiar with: a requirement was missed, a new feature needs to be added, and since this wasn't in the original budget the budget needs to be increased. It's easy to identify these new/changed requirements, easy to see the big chunk of time needed to implement them, and easy to make prioritization decisions about the new requirement vs the other original requirements, so that maybe something can be dropped in order to avoid increasing the budget.

But there's a second kind of scope creep, and it's insidious. It comes from turning high-level requirements into detailed requirements into implemented and tested code. Every decision a developer needs to make about how to implement a feature is an implicit detailed software requirement, and you just can't know how many of those decisions will be needed or what their impacts will be until you get into the details. The time needed for these all add up, and I consider them to be scope creep because they aren't part of the high-level requirements used for the estimate and budget. We try to add padding for them because we know they're going to happen, but if you add sufficient padding across-the-board for all of the detailed requirement decisions that might be needed your project will never get approved. So we pad insufficiently, hoping that some of the requirements will be easier to implement than we estimate to cover the ones that aren't, and we don't manage this kind of scope creep at all. It's invisible, because it's just adding a few minutes here, a few minutes there, until our estimates have been blown away and we're over budget and we can't really say why.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#202

Post by benihana » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 2:17 PM UTC

seivan wrote: post #41

probablyfiction wrote: post #17

This is what burnout looks like. Unless Yelp has a toxic work culture, it's likely the author brought it on themselves by pushing too hard. After several months, the author will probably start thinking about work again, and begin the job search once more. Not to say that the author's points are invalid; it's a terrible feeling to have to spend your most productive hours working on someone else's problems. He or she m…

I went through this. Not sure what toxic culture entails, but fucked up deadlines burned me out. Why do all software companies rush so hard.

Not all software companies do. I work at a place that is very much "we'll ship it when it's ready" and some people here still feel burnout.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#203

Post by mrgriscom » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 2:17 PM UTC

I'd like to plug going part-time as a good way to temper burnout and provide a soft landing for if/when you eventually decide to leave. You still get some money coming in -- proportionally more due to progressive taxation. You still have benefits, which the company may or may not still cover as if you were full-time. You avoid abrupt life change while getting a four-day weekend every week. If your company values you they will probably be more open to this arrangement than you may think.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#204

Post by lukasm » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 2:17 PM UTC

mootothemax wrote: post #84

pessimik wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to Poland - 19% flat income tax rate for companies - you can get flat by 400 euro / month in biggest cities and work remotely for foreign clients.

Go to Poland - 19% flat income tax rate for companies - you can get flat by 400 euro / month in biggest cities and work remotely for foreign clients. To expand on this: one can operate as a sole trader company, and enjoy the 19% flat income tax rate. You can also register your company for VAT, and then claim back the VAT on company purchases. The only other cost is ~$270 / ~240 EUR / ~180 GBP per month in social insu…

you can pay only 100 Euro for insurance for first 2 years(no pension contribution)

The only problem is communication with government, rather impossible without polish.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#205

Post by votetardgjgjv » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 2:18 PM UTC

zatkin wrote: post #194

jfe wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ditto.

Please make more meaningful contributions rather than simply feeling similarities with other users. That is what the upvoting feature is for.

Please make more meaningful contributions rather than simply feeling similarities with other users. That is what the downvoting feature is for.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#206

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 2:18 PM UTC

reitoei wrote: post #83

maccard wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Between that and the cost of property in Dublin (rental prices are insane at the minute, and I haven't looked at buying but I figure it's the same) that's why everyone graduating in ireland is leaving

Well they're idiots because there are plenty of really well-paying job in the tech industry.

[deleted]

Re: I quit the tech industry

#207

Post by xacaxulu » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 2:20 PM UTC

lsaferite wrote: post #100

mootothemax wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to Poland - 19% flat income tax rate for companies - you can get flat by 400 euro / month in biggest cities and work remotely for foreign clients. To expand on this: one can operate as a sole trader company, and enjoy the 19% flat income tax rate. You can also register your company for VAT, and then claim back the VAT on company purchases. The only other cost is ~$270 / ~240 EUR / ~180 GBP per month in social insu…

You know what sucks. As an American I'd still have to pay American income taxes. I cannot wrap my head around how we can say that's ok. Sure, there are ways to get around a portion of the taxes, but those involve things like never coming to the US for more than a set (short) amount of time.

This is false, false, false. Please everyone, if you stay out of the US for ~ 330 days a year, you are untaxed up to about 100k (changes every year). I've done this 2 years and the savings are insane. Federal income taxes are a huge drain on your salary. Go abroad!!

Re: I quit the tech industry

#208

Post by notNow » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 2:20 PM UTC

words of advice to the author of this piece: Just take a vacation and go somewhere new and interesting and then unwind for some time and after you clear up your mind, re-evaluate your decision and see what's good for you going forward and I'm sure you will manage to sort all of this out.

Best wishes

Re: I quit the tech industry

#209

Post by sosuke » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 2:22 PM UTC

serve_yay wrote: post #172

Mahn wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's how all posts like these go, HN loves to upvote them for some reason but they all boil down to "I'm quitting because I have enough money to do it".

Boy oh boy, that really puts a different spin on this post, doesn't it. I wish I had the cash to throw this kind of tantrum.

That's what it looks like from the outside doesn't it? His pain is real certainly, and like all experience relative to his situation. When you look at it from a perspective of responsibility without an option to stop working, or the fear of not finding work with which you can fulfill your responsibilities his position is a lot tougher to identify with.

I hope I can work hard enough to someday be able to have the luxury of that choice and that I'll remember my current perspective at that time.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#210

Post by jlongster » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 2:22 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #192

probablyfiction wrote: post #17

This is what burnout looks like. Unless Yelp has a toxic work culture, it's likely the author brought it on themselves by pushing too hard. After several months, the author will probably start thinking about work again, and begin the job search once more. Not to say that the author's points are invalid; it's a terrible feeling to have to spend your most productive hours working on someone else's problems. He or she m…

He has actually done one of the best things that he can do in that situation: eliminate expenses. When I tried bootstrapping my startup years ago with periodic contract work the albatross around my neck wasn't anything to do with the company, it was the mortgage and other home expenses that continually made it harder and harder to go without a steady income. People always focus on income without looking at expenses a…

I've always wanted to make $200,000 or so from a successful personal project on the side, just so that I could pay off my mortgage so I didn't have to worry about it anymore.

But when I think about really getting that money, I realize I wouldn't do that. If my mortage is $1200/month, I just bought myself 166 months, or ~14 years. If the idea is to quit your job and invest in a company, that's not the smartest move. You're better off stocking away $72,000 so you don't have to worry about your mortgage in 5 years, and investing the rest in the company (you will not be making money for a while, and on top of paying your own salary, you will need to buy advertising).

If the idea is to avoid the interest on your loan, and be completely emotionally free from that debt, than by all means do it. This would work well if you are just going to do consulting since the cash flow swing isn't as dangerous.