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American students head to Germany for free college

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Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#201

Post by _stephan »

dignati wrote: post #195
_delirium wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on experience in both the U.S. and Danish university systems (not the German one, but I believe it shares some similarities), the U.S. university education has a bigger focus on interdisciplinarity, where you focus on a major but also are required to take courses in other disciplines. The Danish system focuses specifically on the major. If you major in CS in Denmark, you will take CS courses and only CS courses…

Not the same, CS majors in Germany have to choose one "Anwendungsfach" that consist of a subset of classes of natural-sciences, humanities or engineering majors. You have to choose one and stick with it. Also there is the "Nichttechisches Wahlpflichtfach" (probably the most german words I know) which can be a language class or mentoring first-semesters or something similar. So I feel like we get a lot of interdiscipl…

This is the schedule for a three year CS bachelor program at the TUM in Munich: https://www.in.tum.de/en/current-students/bachelors-programs...

As you can see, about a fifth of the of the credits have to come from "support electives (soft skills)" and applied subject courses. I suppose this is quite representative for a German bachelor program.

You also have to keep in mind that the curricula at a US high school and a German Gymnasium are not equivalent. German students at the beginning of their university career on average have the equivalent of at least one year more of school education compared to the US students -- at least that used to be case.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#202

Post by creshal »

Happydayz wrote: post #199
creshal wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what the Germans do and start segregating students by ability soon after elementary school It's not that fascist. For one, the parents decide which schools their kids go to, the states can only give recommendations (which are regularly ignored by Special Snowflake Parents). Additionally, the decision is not final. Students can (and do) switch to a higher school form if their grades are good enough, and work their w…

Ah, very interesting then. I lived in Germany for three years, but there are still obviously many aspects of German culture I'm still not 100% on. Thanks for that correction. My understanding from the time (mid 2000s) was that the school tracking happened relatively early and that moves between tracks were infrequent.

> My understanding from the time (mid 2000s) was that the school tracking happened relatively early

It happens after the four-year primary school, yes. But as said, the school merely gives recommendations, and the parents can put their children in every (public or private) school they want, only home schooling is heavily restricted (and basically only possible if it's medically necessary).

> and that moves between tracks were infrequent.

From my (limited) personal experience, yes. But there's little bureaucratic obstacles to such a move, as far as I can tell, most don't move because there's little need – even the lowest secondary degree allows you to attain a bachelor of arts (although it's a rather long route and you're looking at a total of 20 or more years via vocational school time versus 15/16 years via university).

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#203

Post by ahomescu1 »

ahomescu1 wrote: post #68
doyoulikeworms wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer to this question depends on how these taxes are raised. Currently, this tax is raised in the form of fees, due quarterly (or per semester) for the four (or more, or less) years of UC education consumed. Paid for by students and/or their families. Payment plans, subsidies, and loans may be available to pay this tax... (I know I'm being a bit colorful, but I hope you catch my drift)

Those don't sound like "taxes" in the sense that they're paid by the entire population, they're just direct payments to the school and only paid by students and parents (those who directly benefit from the service of education). What I am trying to say is that, from an individual perspective, it makes more sense to pay the $15k. If you're making $50k/year in income, 3% of that for the rest of your life (assuming you…

> (assuming you work for about 50 years)

I meant 40 years here (and HN won't let me edit the comment anymore).

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#205

Post by kyllo »

throwaway30492 wrote: post #200
kyllo wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suburbs in America are a byproduct of racism. They were invented when sharecroppers (freed African-American slaves and their children who then became indentured servants/laborers) from the south migrated en masse to the cities of the north and started moving into urban neighborhoods, and the white people fled to the outskirts rather than let black people live among them.

Source?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#206

Post by yodsanklai »

FanaHOVA wrote: post #141
yodsanklai wrote: post #40

I wonder if American students fleeing their country to save on education tax is more than anecdotical. BTW, the article mentions Germany, but isn't education cheap in most European countries?

Here in Italy (Rome exactly) we pay around 1000-2000€ a year of tuition, but that's really what it's worth it. The education is good, but the structures are awful, from labs to classes and lecture halls. I've visited Caltech, Stanford, NYU and Columbia while travelling and they're light years ahead. If I was born in the US I'd never move to Europe to study anything tech related, being in a major university like Stanf…

You can't compare a random Italian university with Stanford and MIT. There are extremely selective schools in Europe too. In Italy, if I'm not mistaken, the Scuola Normale Superiore di Pisa is quite reputable.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#207

Post by ryandrake »

grkvlt wrote: post #150
Lawtonfogle wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does it handle things like schools that can afford dedicated SAT (or German equivalent) prep classes compared to those that can't?

The entry criteria aren't based on something like the SAT, although International Baccelaureate perhaps comes close in Europe? Not sure, maybe someone else can explain? So there are no prep classes or anything like that in the UK. Everyone sits the same set of exams (modulo being Scottish or English/Welsh/NI, which have different types of qualification) and those results dictate whether you can go to University or no…

Surely anywhere there are exams, there are rich parents paying for exam prep in order to gain an advantage.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#208

Post by Lawtonfogle »

nebody wrote: post #167
josephmx wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better or richer schools will always have an advantage over schools with worse teachers or less funding, particularly with the way we currently do exams.

In Germany funding doesn't vary much for schools in the same region and is basically based on size of the student body. The last two years of school are generally a prep course for the German SAT equivalent (and grades in those two years account for around two thirds of the final score).

>In Germany funding doesn't vary much for schools in the same region and is basically based on size of the student body.

In which case schools located in areas with a higher cost of living are effectively receiving less because any teacher working their, while on an absolute scale making the same, is making less on the more realistic scale that adjusts for cost of living.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#209

Post by Lawtonfogle »

tormeh wrote: post #76
iamjdg wrote: post #28

I am on a temporary work assignment in Germany (2 years). I would come back in a minute if I wanted to further my education. Its a great country, safe, modern, and residents (permanent or not) get a lot of support from the government. Free university is for the German people, but they extend it to foreigners because Germany needs people and they hope they stay. I've learned a lot in Germany I will take back with me a…

the ideal export to import ratio is 1, BTW. Anything else is an imbalance and a ticking bomb. The internal trade imbalances in the EU have already blown up once.

Even if it is 1 at the national level, at some level of granularity it will not be 1. This seems to be a system that cannot be in a consistent stable state. I would rather aim for controlled periodic fluctuations, but even then I don't think it is possible to avoid areas of economic bloom and economic blight.

Re: American students head to Germany for free college

#210

Post by tsotha »

walshemj wrote: post #54
drvd wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Germans are not so obsessed about not paying taxes like e.g. Americans or Swiss. Nobody likes to pay taxes and everybody complains about the high taxes. But I think (actually hope!) that Germans understand (if only unconsciously) that happiness is much more depending on getting old without fear of poverty, knowing to be treated if ill, being able to go safely outside anytime anywhere, not dropping out of society if b…

Really? you regularly see reports of German Pensioners getting caught trying to smuggle large amounts of cash to Lichtenstein. Though Germany isn't as bad as Italy or Greece

Amazingly enough in most places with sharply progressive tax codes the people who actually have to pay the taxes are a lot less thrilled with the status quo than everyone else. Though they are certainly willing to pay lip service to its benefits.
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