Gotham Air: Manhattan to JFK in 6 minutes for $99 • Hacker News Board

Re: Gotham Air: Manhattan to JFK in 6 minutes for $99

#201

Post by cylinder » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 4:37 PM UTC

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #124

orbitur wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. I think I'd pay $160 to not sit in traffic for 3 hours, just to wait in an airport/go through security for another 2. That means extra time to get things done before you fly out.

As someone who lives in a city with a population of approximately 100,000 in the greater metro area - Launceston, Tasmania - I'd like to take a moment to reflect on your comment. Google Maps tells me Manhattan to JFK Airport is a 32 kilometre taxi ride and takes three hours, plus it takes two hours to clear security at the airport. I'm a little astounded by those numbers. Five hours to get from the couch at home to t…

Definitely not three hours. Longest I've been stuck in traffic was 50 minutes from east Manhattan to JFK, and that was at 5pm on the day before Christmas eve (23rd).

Re: Gotham Air: Manhattan to JFK in 6 minutes for $99

#202

Post by cylinder » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 4:42 PM UTC

mpdehaan2 wrote: post #186

mkopinsky wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The numbers above are an exaggeration. I lived in the north end of manhattan (the part furthest from JFK) and an hour to get to JFK was on the long side - typical is probably 40-80 minutes. It doesn't take two hours to clear security at an airport either - typical is anywhere from 10 to 45 minutes.

Incidentally, Uber direct to JFK is slightly cheaper than a cab too ($45-ish?). You think it would be crazy expensive, but it's flat rate. I'm not sure about from JFK into the city, but I think I was told it was the same. I'm not too big of a fan of the AirTram + Long Island Railway (LIRR) route, which ends up at one of the major train stations, has on outside terminal (not great in the winter and slow with a lot of…

Uber to JFK is $66 right now. Taxis are a flat rate to JFK as well ($60 plus tip). There are car services you can call which will do it cheaper.

I've recently started doing Penn Station -> Jamaica w/ LIRR -> AirTrain, it's miles better than subway and almost preferable to car if you're paying for the car.

Re: Gotham Air: Manhattan to JFK in 6 minutes for $99

#203

Post by roel_v » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 4:42 PM UTC

induscreep wrote: post #192

15thandwhatever wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was pretty clear on their site that they offered the "security transfer" only at certain terminals, for certain airlines. For instance, if you were flying Continental out of Newark, it was great to come in via USH and not have to deal with infrequent flyers at security.

Could you explain what you mean by "deal with infrequent flyers at security"? What exactly do infrequent flyers do wrong?

"What do you mean, does this big sign that says 'take off your belt' mean that I actually have to, you know, take off my belt? And this form that says 'are you carrying any fresh fruit on you', I didn't think that would apply to this orange in my backpack because, you know, I didn't see anything wrong with it!"

Re: Gotham Air: Manhattan to JFK in 6 minutes for $99

#204

Post by drzaiusapelord » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 4:45 PM UTC

llimllib wrote: post #188

coldtea wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once I run the numbers for air travel fatality rates, as compared to car fatality rates but talking into account miles travelled for both (and number of passengers etc), and, assuming I was correct, they came out pretty close.

According to wiki, autos are more than an order of magnitude more dangerous per mile: Air Car Miles driven 40 450 Risk (millionths) 0.60 6.75 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transportation_safety_in_the_U... edit: that was a shallow misreading of the data. But the end concludes that air travel is roughly slightly less than an order of magnitude safer.

Per mile is a weird metric, isn't it? It just seems to favor aircraft that travel so much farther.

Per trip would be interesting Not to mention, a minor crash or serious failure in a car is usually a walk away event. A minor crash or serious failure in a plane or chopper is usually fatal. Its okay if my car breaks down on the interstate. Its not okay if my plane does over the ocean, like Air France 447.

I'm not saying air travel is unsafe. I just think we're selling the point incorrectly.

Re: Gotham Air: Manhattan to JFK in 6 minutes for $99

#205

Post by leroy_masochist » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 4:48 PM UTC

I once ran into a squad-mate from The Basic School in a bar in Sneads Ferry NC. He had since become a CH-53 pilot, and that night he was pretty deep into the beers. At one point he made a comment that I remember verbatim because it stuck with me: "Think of a helicopter as 100,000 moving parts competing with each other to be the first one to break."

You guys can take the helo, I'll be fine leaving extra early for the airport and possibly sitting in traffic :)

Re: Gotham Air: Manhattan to JFK in 6 minutes for $99

#206

Post by usefulcat » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 4:50 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #139

jfoutz wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/20... It's hard to compare cars and helicopters. From the article: "Between 2005 and 2009, there was an annual average of 1.44 fatalities (PDF) per 100,000 flying hours in nonmilitary helicopters. Over the same period, there were 13.2 traffic fatalities per 100,000 population in the United States annually. Since the average American spends around 780 hours per…

Assume you used such a service (roundtrip) once per month, and it saved you 40 hours per year. The annual risk of dying in the helo crash (taking the numbers from above) is 12 minutes flying RT * 12 RT/year = 144 minutes per year / 60 mins/hr * 1.44/100K or a risk of dying of 3.456 per 100K years. (overstated as the figure is fatalities per 100K hours, not fatal accidents per 100K). The annual risk of dying in a car…

Saves 3 hours of your life, provided that you consider riding in a car for 3 hours equivalent to being dead for 3 hours.

Re: Gotham Air: Manhattan to JFK in 6 minutes for $99

#207

Post by mikeash » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 5:12 PM UTC

neurotech1 wrote: post #110

mikeash wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, you can't just mention a bunch of ways in which smaller aircraft are unsafe and then declare that they somehow don't count. If pilot experience and currency is a big factor for why small planes are more dangerous (and it most certainly is), then it's just a factor for why small planes are more dangerous, not some way that small planes aren't more dangerous. For this specific service, there are a couple…

If these helicopters are FAR Part 135 they'd likely have TCAS. Glass cockpit helicopters flown by commercial pilots are quite likely safer than driving. Also, a skilled pilot can autorotate a Bell 407 without damage or injury. In fact, it would be easier than ditching a A320. A friend of mine had a near mid-air in a Bell 407 over a city, flying between buildings, due to the other helicopter operating on an IFR cleara…

Oh nice, I didn't realize TCAS was available there.

As for autorotation, my worry isn't so much the procedure (although it sounds much trickier than a gliding landing in an airplane) but the fact that you don't get much horizontal maneuvering and there aren't many good places to land in a dense city, and the fact that there are many single points of failure that make it much more likely to happen.

Re: Gotham Air: Manhattan to JFK in 6 minutes for $99

#208

Post by RayVR » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 5:13 PM UTC

I frequently fly out of JFK. I have lived in three very different areas of Manhattan. Never has it taken me more than 1.5 hours to get to JFK. I would say the mean time is more like 45 minutes.

Yellow cabs are fixed rate $55 + tolls. I can get an uber for around the same price, often less depending on time of day.

While the idea of having a helicopter fly you out to your airport is great, the actuality of it is likely pretty much on par with car travel.

The biggest value I see is in transportation to the Hamptons or Nantucket. There's no security transfer/terminal concerns, the drive out there on the weekend is a nightmare, and you potentially save time.

Re: Gotham Air: Manhattan to JFK in 6 minutes for $99

#209

Post by mikeash » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 5:16 PM UTC

pcl wrote: post #146

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot €20 choose a seat - it's €0 if you want a randomly assigned seat but somehow the website mislead me in to clicking it, it took me 20 minutes to get this far in the booking, I'm scared to press the browser back button and I'm so frustrated now I'm blind to the clear and easy method of modifying the my previous selection, if there even is one, because the page changed as soon as I clicked. Maybe the site has…

Don't they put the "no seat preference" option in a drop-down containing a list of city names or something crazy like that?

I decided I had to see this for myself. It looks like it's actually the travel insurance option, not the seat option, but close enough:

http://mikeash.com/tmp/screenshot_F1E1DACD-A595-455E-A5C1-E2...

And it wouldn't let me proceed until I chose something; leaving it at the default wasn't allowed. Very tricky.

Re: Gotham Air: Manhattan to JFK in 6 minutes for $99

#210

Post by jfoutz » Fri, Jan 23, 2015, 5:23 PM UTC

CPLX wrote: post #191

jfoutz wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/20... It's hard to compare cars and helicopters. From the article: "Between 2005 and 2009, there was an annual average of 1.44 fatalities (PDF) per 100,000 flying hours in nonmilitary helicopters. Over the same period, there were 13.2 traffic fatalities per 100,000 population in the United States annually. Since the average American spends around 780 hours per…

> an annual average of 1.44 fatalities (PDF) per 100,000 flying hours in nonmilitary helicopters. Big question here of what's being measured. If this includes search and rescue helicopters, fire fighting, weather, and similar, then it's not at all comparable to routine transportation driving.

The article talks about some of the difficulties. FWIW, i think ambulance accident rates are about 4 times more than routine driving. So more like 20x more dangerous to fly.

There's also a bunch of complexity about what happens to helicopter safety rates when that kind of flying becomes routine. Maybe it'll get way safer, because there are so many less risky flights, maybe it'll get more dangerous because pilots get complacent.

fwiw, i walk to work, so i hardly drive at all. If i was in a situation that i could take the flight, i'd take the flight.