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Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

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Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#201

Post by BugBrother »

afterburner wrote: post #165
mudil wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's absolutely not true. People live better across the world today than they lived 50 or even 20 years ago. I read statistics somewhere that people in some obscure African country today (can't recall the name) have a living standards of Finland of 20 years ago. Think about this: the major health issue nowadays across the world is obesity, not hunger.

The key word was "spontaneously". You have to make sure the money gets there.

I'm hellbanned (too easily trollable) so you probably won't see this, but I recommend an article by Krugman which changed my world view:

http://www.slate.com/articles/business/the_dismal_science/19...

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#202

Post by hcentelles »

I'm from Cuba, living in Spain right now.

The Cuban government is reluctant to open internet access to the people, despite of they already have the needed bandwith through a submarine cable from Venezuela. Is really fascinating how the Cubans have developed a higly optimized offline distribution channel to share dowloaded content like websites, software, video games, tv shows, movies, with almost the same comsuption patterns of the connected world.

This is a loable move from Obama admnistration and can have a pontentially impact on the near future of cuban internet. The White House fact sheet (http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/12/17/fact-s...) said:

"Telecommunications providers will be allowed to establish the necessary mechanisms, including infrastructure, in Cuba to provide commercial telecommunications and internet services, which will improve telecommunications between the United States and Cuba."

If Cuban government allow this kind of companies to do business on or with Cuba, that could be huge. But if happens, this could be very slow, sadly.

Disclosure: I'm the cofounder of some Cuba related startups, a classifieds ads site censored by the Cuba government https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUmPkb44n_w, they block us by ip and dns, despite of the censorship, revolico is one of the most visited sites in the country, taking into account that cuba has a 5% internet penetration. Also a atypical remittances platform https://www.fonoma.com and crowfunding site for cuban artists shutted down by the USA goverment because of the kind of restriction that they are softening today http://www.yagruma.org

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#203

Post by mistermumble »

mudil wrote: post #137
toomuchtodo wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please explain how that's any different than the US when you can't afford medicine or care? It makes little difference whether the shortage is due to no physical supply vs not being able to afford it. If you can't get healthcare, you can't get it. http://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/health/2014/03/26/medical-ban... “In 2013 over 20% of American adults are struggling to pay their medical bills, and three in five bankruptci…

I am an anesthesiologist. I worked in some of the best hospitals in the country in residency (UCSF and Harvard's BWH), and I worked in Detroit and I work now in a small Catholic hospital. And I can tell you that quality of care poor get is the same as rich ones get. Then I also grew up in Soviet Union, where supposedly great healthcare was developed. And I can tell you they had a horrible health care like they have i…

What does getting basic primary care to the population (vaccinations, preventive care, well baby care) have to do with how many research papers get written?

I have worked in one of the top medical schools in the US, with world-class researchers, and know that there is very little there that is directly applicable to a population of rural farmers and impoverished city dwellers.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#204

Post by k-mcgrady »

calbear81 wrote: post #193
k-mcgrady wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "It's because we don't criminalize homelessness as aggressively as other major cities" I don't think that matters - the op's point still stands. Do you think criminalising homelessness solves the problem? It just (poorly) hides it. There may be a different between the 'working' poor and the mentally ill that you point out but I'd be willing to bet the mentally ill aren't left to live on the street and fend for the…

I was pointing out a difference between the reasons for poverty (mental illness, etc.) between the homeless and people who live in poverty in third world countries (political/socio-economic oppression, etc.). I don't believe in criminalizing homelessness as it's a public health issue but I would contest the opinion that it poorly hides it. Look at any thread about New Yorkers complaining about SF and count how many t…

I thought that was your intention. I'm interested to here your response to my second point.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#205

Post by pistle »

xster wrote: post #149
iandanforth wrote: post #7

I've visited Cuba on a Canadian passport. Aside from the beautiful beaches the thing that struck me most was the desperate poverty of people living in shacks outside the 5 star resorts. While I hesitate to predict that this change will be all for the good, I do believe that the poorest in Cuba will benefit significantly from increased trade.

I'm also not sure whether the flooding of subsidized US agricultural products will benefit the poorest in Cuba. Take Haiti for instance that went from self sufficiency to a net importer of rice when local producers can't compete with US subsidies.

That's theoretically a good thing. If it costs less to eat rice from the US, then that capital can be put to use in other ways. The problem can be an existing large imbalance in income producing resources. If rice agriculture is the only thing available, then wealth imbalance can/will increase and power dynamics start looking like oil or natural resource rich countries.

If, on the other hand, people are able to eek out improved standards of living, in general, with savings on food costs, they can increase health and education spending and get into a virtuous cycle of increased living standards.

There's a bigger context necessary.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#206

Post by mistermumble »

hyperbovine wrote: post #51
debacle wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find that anyone against this reunion is doing it because of something utterly trivial and selfish.

When I was in Cuba, a lot of people I talked to were obviously in favor of lifting the embargo, but others expressed misgivings about what it would do to their culture and society. Cuba is an indescribably weird place where almost everybody is (on paper anyways) poor, yet education, health care and the arts flourish. Violent crime is virtually unheard of, say what you will about how they achieve that. They are very p…

  > education health care and the arts flourish
Yes. Music also.

THIS is the Cuba I'd like to see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tozhe0yTAqo

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#207

Post by finid »

calbear81 wrote: post #111
soperj wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt the same way visiting San Francisco, the abject poverty of the people downtown outside $400 a night hotels is just incredible.

It's because we don't criminalize homelessness as aggressively as other major cities and the homeless population is concentrated near downtown where the SROs and social services are located. Keep in mind that it's generally not simply poverty but mental illness or a history of abuse/violence that separates the homeless here vs. the working poor in the favelas and slums of the third world.

> It's because we don't criminalize homelessness as aggressively as other major cities

Yes, let's criminalize homelessness. How dare those homeless people refuse to stay in their mansions and apartments.

Do you think we should send the worst of them to Gitmo?

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#208

Post by ceejayoz »

mudil wrote: post #124
toomuchtodo wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.wired.com/2010/04/cuban-health-lessons/ "Despite a 50-year trade embargo by the United States and a post-Soviet collapse in international support, the impoverished nation has developed a world-class health care system. Average life expectancy is 77.5 years, compared to 78.1 years in the United States, and infant and child mortality rates match or beat our own. There’s one doctor for every 170 people, more…

"There are shortages of medicines, and the best care is reserved for elites." Nice healthcare system!

The US has shortages of medicines, too. http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/drugshortages/default....

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#209

Post by ceejayoz »

jlebar wrote: post #164
valarauca1 wrote: post #5

This is actually (amusingly) incredibly unpopular in cigar circles who are calling this the "end of an era". Most discussions seems to center around the doom and gloom of quality dropping and prices increasing as the US/Cuban cigar market opens and the demand for CC increases. No discussion on the legality of owning CC changing amusingly. As apparently everyone forgets that smoking a Cuban Cigar can be considered an…

> smoking a Cuban Cigar can be considered an act of treason currently. "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court." Like most of the Constitution, I'm sure that there's way more to u…

Yeah, it wouldn't be treason. The sanctions have defined punishments at http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/D...

> Criminal penalties for violating the Regulations range up to 10 years in prison, $1,000,000 in corporate fines, and $250,000 in individual fines. Civil penalties up to $65,000 per violation may also be imposed.

Re: Cuba and the U.S. will begin to normalize relations

#210

Post by finid »

pdeuchler wrote: post #132
xyahoo wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand: - average life expectancy in Cuba is almost the same as the USA (and higher than Mexico, Belize, Bahamas, Brazil, etc.). - literacy rate in Cuba is higher than that in the USA - Physicians per 10,000 people: Cuba has 67, USA has 24 In the Ebola crisis, Cuba has been leading from the front.

Comparing statistics from small, homogeneous populations to statistics from larger, heterogeneous populations is fraught with peril. Doubly so for metrics on education and health. (I like to call this the Scandinavian Fallacy) As engineers we would never compare uptime statistics from a small, niche startup serving a couple thousand people to uptime statistics from, say, Google. Why do we immediately ignore these pri…

> Comparing statistics from small, homogeneous populations

Cuba is small. Does it have an homogeneous population?

No, amigo!

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