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Amazon’s Monopsony Is Not O.K.

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Re: Amazon’s Monopsony Is Not O.K.

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When you publish through a publishing house, they assume the financial risk. Of what? The cost of the books? Because advances have gone basically to zero. I was offered none. As far as your other questions: Books won't sell unless you curate an audience prior to writing it. And if you do that, the need for a publisher disappears quickly.

From what you say I assume that you think a publishing house's only job is to take your manuscript to the printer. Well, no, there's much work involved in the editing and design process prior to that. There's people working on the logistics and marketing of books. There're legal, financial, technical and administrative issues (as in any business). And paying all those, plus the books, costs money. I don't know with w…

That's the rub, isn't it? A "serious" publishing house is only attainable if you are already going to sell thousands of books, and if you are, then their services are not usually worth the cut of royalties that it costs, plus the multi-book deal you generally have to sign. It's far cheaper to contract out editing/marketing/etc to new places.

James Altucher has written about this extensively, and his stuff is very widely read (certainly far more than I).

Most of the publishers I've spoken with are well-regarded non-fiction houses who have done medium and big time projects. Their cut of royalties were usurious, to say the least. When I compared what I got with what I would be paying them, it was insane. That's where my perspective comes from.

Re: Amazon’s Monopsony Is Not O.K.

#203
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're looking purely at the market caps and revenues, while the economy is also a function of employment and political influence. Heavily regulated segments might have fewer players (at first), but those are regulated and their power is curtailed. And like another commenter said, unregulated markets (and historical examples are aplenty, especially in the US), quickly see consolidation and concentration of power in t…

Love the discussion. Will write a long response because I don’t have time for a short one. In regard to the first paragraph can you name any examples? The most regulated industries have the most power. Banking, energy & utilities, healthcare insurance are all examples. Can you name one sustained US monopoly that has existed without government assistance? 2nd paragraph. Uber might transfer risk to workers but without…

> Can you name one sustained US monopoly that has existed without government assistance?

The oil and rail companies of the gilded age. It was government regulation (the Sherman Act[1]) that helped put a stop to monopolies. If you read up on Rockefeller, JP Morgan, Stanford and pretty much any robber baron, you'd see that they were in the business of constant consolidation. True, at many points they were aided by local government, but that's because local government wasn't regulated either.

> Uber might transfer risk to workers but without uber these workers wouldn't even have jobs...

Maybe and maybe not, but that doesn't justify exploitation. Think of an island where the people are starving, and some industrialist moves his business there and has the islanders build iPhones for two slices of bread per day. Both the islanders and the industrialist benefit from the transaction, but the transaction is still exploitative, as the industrialist uses the threat of death by hunger to get an unfair deal.

> Same thing is happening with Telsa. Whenever a transformative company enters an industry, the existing players lobby government for regulation and/or to enforce the regulation already in place. ..

I'm not saying that government regulation is always used for good, or that it's even used for good most of the time. I am saying that society is on the whole better with regulation than without it, because (at least in the US) the population was being massively exploited during the gilded age and called on the government for help, and I think pretty much everyone agrees that America is much better for it, even if growth has slowed.

> Uber has ample competition so I wouldn’t say they exactly wield power.

My original comment may have been confusing, but Uber was mentioned simply as an exploitative company (which might some day become powerful) -- not a currently powerful one, unlike Google and Amazon, which are already too powerful.

> This is ridiculous. Government’s role is to serve the people. Government knows better than the people? The government needs to protect citizens from themselves?

Democracies protect people from themselves even when it comes to the democratic process itself. Most democracies prevent people from voting in a dictator, even if the people really want it. They install checks and balances to prevent an accumulation of power even if the people want it. And it's not about knowing better, but averting disaster by slowing down the growth of potential "cancerous tumors". The government doesn't (and can't) always decide what's "good" and what's "bad". All it can do is prevent individuals or organizations from growing too strong, so that if something bad happens, the damage is limited. This means that some potential positive effects are slowed down as well, but lowering the risk for a disaster is usually worth it.

> How would they determine when an “unelected body” gains too much control over people’s lives?

Just as Teddy Roosevelt did. When the exploitation starts piling up, the media exposes the control, and the people call for change.

> Transactions only occur when both parties think they’ll benefit.

Like I said before, this doesn't mean the transactions are carried out when both sides are free of duress. A surgeon and a homeless person aren't as free when it comes to the choice of, say, buying drugs. The surgeon has a lot to lose if caught, while the homeless doesn't. Performing transactions when one side of the deal has limited choice or limited knowledge is exploitative even if that side benefits, too. In democracies, the weak side will hopefully be educated of the exploitation, and then use their political power to tip the scales more in their favor. The idea is that democracies (though they're far from perfect at that; really far) are able to generate other forms of power to offset that of property.

If the rich are free to exercise their power -- money -- any way they like, the poor should be free to use their power -- their numbers -- to fight back. This is why I think American libertarianism is so hypocritical, as it places limitations only on one side but not the other. If regulation on money is to be completely lifted, than so should regulation on violence. But since many people don't want that, we have democratic institutions that give the poor some power back (though not nearly as much as they would in an anarchy, where they'd be free to use violence, which is why democracy, too, mostly serves the rich).

[1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_Antitrust_Act

Re: Amazon’s Monopsony Is Not O.K.

#204
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its an error to assume folks actually READ the books they buy. I have a tall stack of books I'll get around to reading. I paid for them all of course.

I think it's also an error to assume this really has any bearing on what Charlie was talking about. This gets into the "I once dove to the bottom of the ocean and brought back a pretty shell, so that's a viable place to open a curio shop" fallacy. The fact that a subset of readers will buy a few more books than they'll read doesn't mean that books are ultimately non-rival goods. Unless there are a large number of pot…

Hey! Of course it wasn't what Charlie was talking about. It was me, adding to the conversation. Chill!

Re: Amazon’s Monopsony Is Not O.K.

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't found a great data source for book market-share, but I don't think Amazon is quite as dominant as you imply. "about a 50% market share for books sold online (that’s ebooks and printed books sold via the Internet)" http://www.digitalbookworld.com/2013/is-amazon-invincible/ You don't even need to not sell through Amazon to compete with them, just be willing to take a smaller cut with competitors that give you…

So a smaller cut with a worse outlet with smaller reach. That sounds like a recipe for success to me. What about you?

That's the exact strategy that worked for Amazon.

Re: Amazon’s Monopsony Is Not O.K.

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow really? My reaction to new social networks (even niche ones) is usually somewhere between apathy and irritation, but back in 2010 I remember being excited about Goodreads because I saw actual value there: it just make the system of book recommendations that I already rely on that much more efficient. It took until 2012 for it to suddenly gain popularity and for me to gain a critical mass of friends whose taste I…

Two thoughts on that: 1) You are using it in a way that I'm not able to. For you it is a tool that leverages pre-existing relationships, which I'm sure is great. I know about four people that use Goodreads, and their tastes just don't align to me. And unfortunately for me, the stand-alone recommendation service Goodreads offers that people like me try to rely on is just terrible. 2) Even if I had a critical mass of f…

1) Ah okay, that makes a lot of sense. I find their automated recommendations to be pretty abysmal too. I guess the idea for those without a network on the site is to find similar users or something.

2) I'm not sure how much injection of discovery into the network graph in the first place is a concern. There's always people who like trying random new books that they see, or who read something about an author and decide to try them out, or pick up a random book in a bookstore because it looks cool, etc etc etc. I agree that it'll be a much slower process than in the publisher-gated case, but I don't see why you wouldn't see the same sort of ecosystems arise as did for indie music with independent review sites.

Re: Amazon’s Monopsony Is Not O.K.

#207
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love the discussion. Will write a long response because I don’t have time for a short one. In regard to the first paragraph can you name any examples? The most regulated industries have the most power. Banking, energy & utilities, healthcare insurance are all examples. Can you name one sustained US monopoly that has existed without government assistance? 2nd paragraph. Uber might transfer risk to workers but without…

> Can you name one sustained US monopoly that has existed without government assistance? The oil and rail companies of the gilded age. It was government regulation (the Sherman Act[1]) that helped put a stop to monopolies. If you read up on Rockefeller, JP Morgan, Stanford and pretty much any robber baron, you'd see that they were in the business of constant consolidation. True, at many points they were aided by loca…

That seems like an illogical reasoning regarding Uber. Remember that uber only gets a small slice of whatever the "islanders" are getting. There wouldn't be any reason to deliberately make it harder for the people working unless the market itself has dictated such changes.

Re: Amazon’s Monopsony Is Not O.K.

#208
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you name one sustained US monopoly that has existed without government assistance? The oil and rail companies of the gilded age. It was government regulation (the Sherman Act[1]) that helped put a stop to monopolies. If you read up on Rockefeller, JP Morgan, Stanford and pretty much any robber baron, you'd see that they were in the business of constant consolidation. True, at many points they were aided by loca…

That seems like an illogical reasoning regarding Uber. Remember that uber only gets a small slice of whatever the "islanders" are getting. There wouldn't be any reason to deliberately make it harder for the people working unless the market itself has dictated such changes.

> Remember that uber only gets a small slice of whatever the "islanders" are getting.

Yes, but they're also taking almost risk, so it's still exploitative. The island example was simply meant to show that transactions where both sides benefit aren't necessarily fair, and can still be considered exploitation -- not as a direct comparison to Uber.

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