Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 214 posts

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#201

Post by kybernetikos »

megablast wrote: post #120
lawl wrote: post #4

I totally see how this could upset people. But I'm not sure how his management qualities are tied to his political opinions. It's the same with politicans, what the fuck has an affair to do with their political views? I 100% support gay marriage. I also understand they're upset. But I don't know if this is the right reaction.

I see a big difference between having an affair, and spending money to whatever the equivalent is (a proposition to end hetero marriages?). The $1000 was a hateful spend.

I've got no problem with someone campaigning to end hetero marriages. State marriages make no sense to me. The State shouldn't be granting special rights and privileges to people unless there is a good reason, either one of social benefit or of trying to make up for unfair disadvantages that those individuals suffer.

I'm not sure what social benefit marriage is supposed to confer. If it's to do with raising of children, then clearly only those who have a child should be able to get married. If it's to do with committed relationships being good for society, then anyone in any kind of committed relationship (and not necessarily a sexual one) should be able to get married.

If you can't point to any specific benefit that marriage is supposed to bring to society, then it just looks like the state is trying to control peoples sexuality which is weird, and there's no need for it at all.

If you can point to a specific benefit, then that benefit should be the benchmark for who can and who cannot get married.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#203

Post by gtremper »

Bahamut wrote: post #199
gtremper wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He invented Javascript.

I know that part, but boycotting the language he created over 10 years ago & doesn't actively develop is a stretch is more what I was getting at.

I think he was being a bit facetious.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#204

Post by jccalhoun »

NextUserName wrote: post #143

What he did is support the disagreement that what is now considered a "right" by an increasingly liberal society was indeed a "right". What is wrong with this? Liberals and gays need to realize that they are often bigots against religion. Those believing the Bible's teachings have a different set of moral standards. I find it ironic that this man is called immoral by liberals and that gays are dubbed the immoral ones…

Except it isn't "Liberals vs. Believers" because there are lots of liberals who are christians. And there are christian churches that will marry two people of the same sex. There are lots of people who interpret the bible differently.

So what is happening is certain liberals are bigoted against certain religions that have certain interpretations of their religious texts. Which is a lot different than liberals are bigoted against religion.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#205

Post by bsder »

nemothekid wrote: post #193
bsder wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you don't buy the fundamental rights argument, let's try a simple utilitarian argument. The computer industry, especially in Silicon Valley and San Francisco, employs an abnormally high percentage of people who identify as LGBT. The fact that your company will now have trouble recruiting from that group of individuals places your company at a business disadvantage and makes you unfit to lead such a business.

I completely get the issue. I, personally, support the right for LGBT individuals to get married. However its not about buying the argument What I'm worried about is the social ostracizing of those who hold different political beliefs than you. At some point in time it was completely kosher to say the same thing about Blacks. At some point in time, a company that hired black individuals would have had trouble recruit…

> What worries me is that you could say the same exact argument for not hiring Black workers in the mid 1900s - the exact same you posted, and you seem to be completely cool with that.

The problem is that your analogy doesn't go far enough.

The analogous situation would be: a company in the 1920's known for hiring an above average number of minorities suddenly appoints as CEO someone who donated to the KKK.

This is what is upsetting people.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#206

Post by TheZenPsycho »

anaphor wrote: post #118
TheZenPsycho wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that's the fantasy. The reality is you can't just casually fork a project as big as mozilla. The only way that codebase stays even barely maintained with security bug fixes, is with its army of coders. The great thing about FLOSS is that it's POSSIBLE. The not so great thing about it is, in many cases you're probably better off just starting from scratch.

In the hypothetical scenario that Mozilla management decides to start discriminating against gay people I think we can count on the support of many of the people who are familiar with the codebase. Would you agree?

I find hypothetical scenarios quite challenging. I suppose it's possible the people within mozilla may pull another "mozilla" and spawn a new company made out of many of the same people to maintain its codebase.

I think it's more likely Mozilla, as an organisation, would fire or enfeeble Brendan Eich before that happens.

I only recently learned about the donation, so you have no idea the cognitive dissonance I have been going through.

I believe that, as a champion and a leader, you can't get anyone better than Brendan Eich for the free software movement. But as a symbol, and a figurehead, the donation is really problematic. If it had never come to light, if he had never revealed his inner feelings about homosexuals, would it be a problem for mozilla with him in this role? Maybe, I doubt it though. I think he is utterly professional at keeping those things seperate and interior.

On the other hand, it could very much affect his leadership abilities if he ever has to work directly with someone he knows to be gay. Or many someones. Or an entire company of someones.

This is not to justify his donation. Which was a bad bad idea on his part, and bad ethically speaking too, not just because he got caught. but that I think it's not enough to discard a whole person over.

But on the other hand.. can you sense my cognitive dissonance?

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#207

Post by ryguytilidie »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #166
ryguytilidie wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You seem to imply voting for a cause is okay, but donating $1000 to promote that cause crosses a line. I find this distinction curious. Where is the line? Is it the first penny donated? The first dollar? Dollar #999 of 1000? Does the relevancy of the donation last forever, or is it subject to time decay?" I didn't say that at all. You made that up and then ranted about it. I simply said that one is bad, but the othe…

I'm sorry. Since you were claiming that the "all republicans should be fired" line was such a straw man, I thought you were also offering a reason that the common Republican partisan should be exempted. Given the absence of that as a reason, though, I'm even less certain where you think the line should be, and what makes the straw man so straw-y. Also, plenty of other people here have talked about why his being a CEO…

"I'm sorry. Since you were claiming that the "all republicans should be fired" line was such a straw man, I thought you were also offering a reason that the common Republican partisan should be exempted."

You simply posited, and I didn't believe you were actually serious, that Republicans would soon be locked up for their beliefs. I don't believe this needed to be seriously addressed because it is an utterly moronic point. Good luck with the rest of the crap you made up.

"As such I am distressed that it is so glibly dismissed in favor of a totalitarian approach and calls for boycotts of people who have been accused of doing nothing but supporting the wrong cause."

Glad you got to use totalitarian without knowing what it means. Congrats.

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#208

Post by ryguytilidie »

vezzy-fnord wrote: post #123
ryguytilidie wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think Prop 8 is anything but a Christian law? Oh wait I just tried to rationalize with a guy who compared the Democratic party to the KKK. Nevermind, good luck with being nuts.

I did not compare the Democratic Party to the KKK, I was saying that it was the Democratic Party that primarily supported the KKK during most of its first two incantations. Do not twist my words. If having a basic knowledge of U.S. history is being nuts, then so be it.

"I did not compare the Democratic Party to the KKK, I was saying that it was the Democratic Party that primarily supported the KKK during most of its first two incantations."

wtf. You said nothing remotely close to that...Reread if you'd like:

"Also, it's not like the Democrats (the party of the KKK)"

Yeah, thats just like saying that they primarily supported the KKK...

"Do not twist my words. If having a basic knowledge of U.S. history is being nuts, then so be it."

...just wow. lol man. Maybe try actually having basic knowledge of us history?

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#209

Post by bsder »

jacalata wrote: post #146
bsder wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pluralism does not equal correct. Slavery, women's suffrage, Japanese internment, separate-but-equal ... the list goes on and on.

Did you intend to just put 'giving women the vote' in a list of bad ideas alongside slavery and Japanese internment camps?

The majority was on the wrong side of all of those issues for a long time, no?

Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire

#210

Post by ryguytilidie »

fennecfoxen wrote: post #179
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a country run by the Republican party based on Christian laws. The USA is based on Christian laws? What? No doubt there's a faction that is working on that goal, but that has never been the case in this country thus far. Also, it's not like the Democrats (the party of the KKK) are much better in that regard.

>> In a country run by the Republican party based on Christian laws. > The USA is based on Christian laws? Forget that. The USA is run by the Republican party??!? I guess the Senate and Presidency mean nothing, then. Likewise the situation just a couple years ago when those accursed Republicans were so busy passing Obamacare...

"when those accursed Republicans were so busy trying to repeal Obamacare and having literally no other ideas at all...."

Yep, good summation sir.

Post reply on HN