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Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

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Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#201

Post by rmc »

Mz wrote: post #24

I get the impression that this is a long, polite way of saying Steve committed suicide. The last time I was on HN and the topic of suicide came up, I wrote kind of a ranty piece that I am not up to editing it (to remove the rantiness) and reposting. The short version: If you know someone who is suicidal and you care about them, spend time with them. In person. Suicide is almost always committed when one is alone. My…

The short version: If you know someone who is suicidal and you care about them, spend time with them. In person. Suicide is almost always committed when one is alone.

I read an article about a sports person here who was going to commit suicide, they had it all planned out, and planned the day. But on the day he planned to do it, his mother stayed home instead of going to Mass. Saved his life.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#202

Post by hedwall »

hengheng wrote: post #199
pserwylo wrote: post #93

There is an organisation called BlueHackers.org [0] which was started at the Open Source Developers Conference. It has a strong presence at linux.conf.au as well. The organisation started from a very brief lightning talk that went something along the lines of (me paraphrasing from memory): "Who here in this room has experienced depression?" (for which the person asking the question put their hand up. After a few seco…

I'd like to get one of these stickers. Can you send them by mail or something?

I found this on the homepage:

"We’re seeing a lot requests for the stickers, which is great – we’re happy to post some, but we do need to optimise things a bit otherwise the logistics (and cost) won’t be practical. So here’s the deal for the currently remaining roll of approx 500 stickers.

If you are active for a local user group, conference or company, and want a sticker for yourself as well as some to hand out at your next meeting or just among your colleagues, send us an email at l i f e (at) b l u e h a c k e r s (dot) o r g with a brief note on what group/company/conference it is, your address of course, and how many stickers you need.

I think numbers of up to a couple of dozen are practical at this stage. Remember, we’ll be printing more stickers anyway so this is just to get things going and spread the word further. We’ll gather the emails and do a mailout about once a week, and of course we’ll reply to let you know when they’ve been posted, and how many you get. Okidoki?

By the way, if you’re on Facebook you can also join the BlueHackers cause, again to help make the issue more visible." [1]

I don't know if it is still true, but I will try.

[1]http://bluehackers.org/2009/02/02/if-you-want-bluehackers-st...

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#203

Post by blueskin_ »

l33tbro wrote: post #104
pserwylo wrote: post #93

There is an organisation called BlueHackers.org [0] which was started at the Open Source Developers Conference. It has a strong presence at linux.conf.au as well. The organisation started from a very brief lightning talk that went something along the lines of (me paraphrasing from memory): "Who here in this room has experienced depression?" (for which the person asking the question put their hand up. After a few seco…

Cool sentiment, but what makes you think other "hackers" have the formal background to reach out and to a depressed person? If i was depressed, the last person I'd want to talk to about it are my hacker friends. The vast majority of the population simply have no idea how to talk to mentally ill people.

But not everyone.

I've gone through it myself, both badly and more commonly to lesser extents, and while I'm not a professional and don't claim to be, I do have the personal understanding, and can understand why/how people feel depressed. Myself, I find talking to people helps, not all the time, but often, and I know when I might want to.

As it is, not everyone is such a way either - for many people, just knowing that there is someone that could talk with if they wanted to can be helpful.

As it is, I find the description of depression as a mental illness a bit overbroad - yes, it definitely is a real condition (sometimes lifelong, sometimes intermittent, sometimes temporary) and unfortunately there isn't a better term, but it isn't something requiring drugs (which can make things worse in some conditions)/ doctors all the time, and normal people can and should help if they feel able and willing to.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#204

Post by blueskin_ »

Mz wrote: post #24

I get the impression that this is a long, polite way of saying Steve committed suicide. The last time I was on HN and the topic of suicide came up, I wrote kind of a ranty piece that I am not up to editing it (to remove the rantiness) and reposting. The short version: If you know someone who is suicidal and you care about them, spend time with them. In person. Suicide is almost always committed when one is alone. My…

In person isn't always possible - I'd expect the assumption any friends you know that closely are local from people in most communities, but not here. I've spent time talking to people who I've never met in person who I know consider me a close friend as do I them.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#205

Post by DanBC »

l33tbro wrote: post #104
pserwylo wrote: post #93

There is an organisation called BlueHackers.org [0] which was started at the Open Source Developers Conference. It has a strong presence at linux.conf.au as well. The organisation started from a very brief lightning talk that went something along the lines of (me paraphrasing from memory): "Who here in this room has experienced depression?" (for which the person asking the question put their hand up. After a few seco…

Cool sentiment, but what makes you think other "hackers" have the formal background to reach out and to a depressed person? If i was depressed, the last person I'd want to talk to about it are my hacker friends. The vast majority of the population simply have no idea how to talk to mentally ill people.

I strongly agree with you.

Except destigmatising mental health problems is an important step in letting people get therapeutic help.

Someone suffering a mental health problem might not know where to turn to or want a bit of support to go get help. Knowing that colleagues and friends are not judgmental about mental health; or that those people will help access services is a good thing.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#206

Post by DanBC »

seabee wrote: post #197
hrkristian wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depression doesn't really need a qualified person. You're not talking to a mentally ill person, at least not in the sense that you cannot spring a bolt in a depressed person's mind and have him go on a killing spree. The blue sticker says you'll happily talk, and also listen if they have something profound to get off their chest. That's really the important part, it's not about giving advice.

Just to be clear we're not trivializing the condition, you're right that some sufferers of depression don't really need a qualified person (particularly if they have a good support network and sufficient strength of mind) but some people only turn around after CBT, for example. I do agree with the general thesis that talking to someone willing to listen has a neutral to positive effect. I'd also suggest it's especial…

Sadly it's well known that non-specific counseling has a neutral or negative effect. Obviously studies about this are difficult.

Someone willing to listen is important to help a person with mental health problems get support. That support doesn't have to be from a professional. It could be self guided from a good quality book or website. Or it could involve professionals, from telephone provided CBT through intensive long term psychological therapies provided by speciList providers.

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#207

Post by DanBC »

Mz wrote: post #73
badclient wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you know someone who is suicidal and you care about them, spend time with them. In person. Suicide is almost always committed when one is alone. 100%, although I wish we talked more about the challenge of determining that someone is suicidal. Here's what I wrestle with the most about this. I fear that if I "misdiagnose" someone as suicidal, that I might have now given them the idea that there is such a thing as su…

I am not shy. I tell my kids when I am suicidal. They still live with me and monitor my medical issues closely, so they know when I am being really, really wonky and not just bitching, if that makes sense. It helps that I have an especially close relationship to them. Also, they were raised by me, so are well educated in certain social paradigms.

Do these child carers have access to a support network?

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#208

Post by LinXitoW »

l33tbro wrote: post #104
pserwylo wrote: post #93

There is an organisation called BlueHackers.org [0] which was started at the Open Source Developers Conference. It has a strong presence at linux.conf.au as well. The organisation started from a very brief lightning talk that went something along the lines of (me paraphrasing from memory): "Who here in this room has experienced depression?" (for which the person asking the question put their hand up. After a few seco…

Cool sentiment, but what makes you think other "hackers" have the formal background to reach out and to a depressed person? If i was depressed, the last person I'd want to talk to about it are my hacker friends. The vast majority of the population simply have no idea how to talk to mentally ill people.

I've been depressed and it's precisely because of that i'm certain i couldn't be of help to someone depressed. Thinking back, i can't think of anything my friends could've said that would've helped. I mean, i was basically a pessimistic, cynical asshole that shot everything down, be it "it'll be ok" or "Lets go to the cinema".

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#209

Post by ghswa »

andrewflnr wrote: post #128
ghswa wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As somebody who's been there (on both sides) I don't believe that anybody who might act on suicidal ideation would not have already considered suicide as an option. I'd say that, if you're worried, starting a conversation about it (in person) is just about the best thing you could do. A "missed diagnosis" is far worse than a "misdiagnosis". Sorry for the pun.

I haven't examined the statistics myself, but isn't it known that suicides go up when there are news stories about them, even in a preventive effor? This implies that suicides are, in fact, somewhat suggestible.

Reading about suicide in the news is incomparable to the kind of direct intervention I'm talking about. As john_fushi commented[1], the best thing you can do is talk about it and his suggestion of calling your local suicide helpline for advice is an excellent one.

On a personal level, I've found that talking frankly about suicide greatly reduces my desire to act on any suicidal feelings. This effect is greatest when talking face to face with somebody I know and trust.

However, worrying about whether or not somebody trusts you should NOT stop you from intervening. If somebody shows a desire to listen and help my in such a situation I'll have a much greater level of trust in them than I did before, even if they were previously a complete stranger or somebody I dislike.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7228997

Re: Tell HN: My Brother Died Last Week. His Death Will Not Be In Vain

#210

Post by yummyfajitas »

rmc wrote: post #200
l33tbro wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool sentiment, but what makes you think other "hackers" have the formal background to reach out and to a depressed person? If i was depressed, the last person I'd want to talk to about it are my hacker friends. The vast majority of the population simply have no idea how to talk to mentally ill people.

Another reason to put the sticker on there is to spread awareness and end the stigma. Some people think that mental illness isn't a real illness. But if you have something wrong with your lungs, you go to a lung doctor; so if you have something wrong with your head/mind, you should go to a mind doctor.

Lung cancer and most other physical ailments have legitimate, objective diagnostic criteria. You get a test or two and find out if you have a specific disease. I.e., science.

Psychiatry, except in rare cases, does nothing of the sort. Most discussion about mental illness (including your post) is an attempt to induce people to apply fallacious reasoning about it - you've developed intuitions about cancer, now go incorrectly apply that intuition to depression/drug addiction/etc.

http://lesswrong.com/lw/2as/diseased_thinking_dissolving_que...

If you wish to argue that a given animal can fly, "penguins fly just like crows fly, they are both birds" is a fallacious argument. Similarly, "do X for mind disease just like you'd do X for lung disease" is a fallacious argument.

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