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This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

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Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#201

Post by randallsquared »

hbags wrote: post #137
meritt wrote: post #3

> In my mind, it’s a little preposterous that if I want to do so, however, I have to be ok with being felt up and indirectly insulted. To the author: You're right, it's unacceptable but you know how to fix it? You say something at the point in which it occurs. Nip it in the bud. Running off to write yet another gender-division-in-the-tech-world blog which will be read, primarily, by the sort of folk who already agree…

I think it's absolutely disgusting that you criticize the victim for documenting what happened to her. It's despicable and downright fucking evil that you basically accuse her of sharing her story solely because she wants attention. The worst part of your god-awful post is that it's currently pinned to the top of this board. The fact that your disgusting, insensitive post is at the top is why women don't work in tech…

"After doing so, blog about what happened...."

"I think it's absolutely disgusting that you criticize the victim for documenting what happened to her."

Posted in reply to the wrong comment, maybe?

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#202

Post by gnaritas »

snowwrestler wrote: post #185
gnaritas wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd think the appropriate response to being groped is to shove the guy out of your personal space and say get your hands off me jerk. His response is irrelevant, groping is not just being friendly. However, admittedly, as a guy maybe I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about.

The problem is that she wants to be there, wants to meet all these people, wants to be accepted as a fellow bitcoin enthusiast, wants to make a good impression, wants to maybe make some friends, or maybe just some connections. It's hard to do any of that when 5 minutes in, you're shoving somebody and chastising them publicly. The groper is not going to react well to that. They're not going to think they did anything…

No one should care how the groper responds, after they hear "stop groping me jerk" he's going to be the one shunned, not her. Assholes never think they're wrong; you shouldn't care what they think. It's not at all hard to do any of that if it's clear to people around you who the asshole was.

I keep seeing people talk about how the groper is going to react... seriously, who gives a shit how the villain acts, he's the fucking villain in the situation. You may as well point out that a rapist isn't going to react well to being made to stop raping someone; I'm stunned you'd even think this a valid point to make.

When people act inappropriately, it's doesn't matter what they think or how they react; they're in the wrong, their feeling are irrelevant. Concern yourself with how the victim feels and stop sympathizing with the groper.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#203

Post by vacri »

cases wrote: post #184
hbags wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's absolutely disgusting that you criticize the victim for documenting what happened to her. It's despicable and downright fucking evil that you basically accuse her of sharing her story solely because she wants attention. The worst part of your god-awful post is that it's currently pinned to the top of this board. The fact that your disgusting, insensitive post is at the top is why women don't work in tech…

100% agree. I shouldn't even bother commenting here and this won't be the first time I'm giving up on HN, but seeing the replies you're getting I couldn't leave without at least offering you my support and letting the community know what a sick and twisted bunch of people tech, HN, pg, reddit and the rest of you are. Absolutely disgusting bunch of people. And that's coming from a privileged white male.

The replies that comment is getting are basically "don't be so vitriolic, calm down and you'll get your message across better", and you classify this as 'absolutely disgusting' and 'twisted'?

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#204

Post by sliverstorm »

Semi-related question about the comments on "how women think" and "what women care about". I am occasionally faced with a discussion, naturally with a woman, about something that has an empirical gender bias. I'm curious what other people think. A recent conversation along these lines:

Them: Smiling, Why are you looking at me like that?

Me: Well, I see that you like X. Most women I meet don't really like X, it's nice that you do.

Is that a reasonable framing?

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#205

Post by jpwright »

andrewflnr wrote: post #145
jpwright wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many more posts like this are needed to convince you that the whole community of tech meetups is hostile towards women? Of course that individual deserves the lion's share of the blame, but writing this off as an isolated individual acting inappropriately misses the forest for the trees (i.e. misses the root cause [culture] for the proximate cause [assholes]). To further analogize, perhaps the bad apple was there…

I kinda hate to trot out this cliche, but the plural of anecdote is not data. No number of posts should convince anyone without additional evidence that they represent a large fraction of women's experiences.

I wonder what sort of proof you are looking for. I too would love to see some studies on this. Is there a percentage at which you would care? In the mean time, I'll send you this link as well -- http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Timeline_of_incidents -- to at least show that this exact type of incident happens all the time.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#206

Post by hbags »

vacri wrote: post #200
hbags wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not dumb enough to try to change the stripes on a proudly bigoted jerk like Meritt. I just want anybody who sees his spew to know that his opinion is not the only one. I want any human who is harassed to know that if they share their story after the fact, that's good. And they shouldn't worry about the fact that some utterly worthless assholes like Meritt will try to shame them for speaking out. They shouldn't be…

I'm fine with a bit of profanity and would like to see more, personally. But when your comment is basically nothing but invective, you don't really have a leg to stand on when you're calling someone else worthless. And I'd like other potential Meritt's to realize how utterly disgusting it is that he tried to shame the victim into silence. Meritt said 'say something right then and there, it's more effective. Then writ…

No. what Merritt said that if you don't say something right there and then you should never be allowed to say anything.

He's an asshole and a bully. If a victim doesn't protest withim his designated free-speech zone he doesn't want them to protest at all.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#207

Post by [deleted] »

hbags wrote: post #137
meritt wrote: post #3

> In my mind, it’s a little preposterous that if I want to do so, however, I have to be ok with being felt up and indirectly insulted. To the author: You're right, it's unacceptable but you know how to fix it? You say something at the point in which it occurs. Nip it in the bud. Running off to write yet another gender-division-in-the-tech-world blog which will be read, primarily, by the sort of folk who already agree…

I think it's absolutely disgusting that you criticize the victim for documenting what happened to her. It's despicable and downright fucking evil that you basically accuse her of sharing her story solely because she wants attention. The worst part of your god-awful post is that it's currently pinned to the top of this board. The fact that your disgusting, insensitive post is at the top is why women don't work in tech…

[deleted]

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#208

Post by js2 »

rayiner wrote: post #31

> “Wow. Women don’t usually say that type of things”. To be perfectly honest, this is something I might have thought (but even then had the sense not to say) when I was working as an engineer. The mere lack of women in tech leads to perceptions that make it unpleasant for women to enter the field. Most people interact with just a few spheres: people they work with, people they meet on the street, and their friends, w…

Really? I've been a geek since, well, always, have a CS degree and have been working as a sysadmin and programmer since 1996. There have been women along the way, in my CS program, as coworkers, at the various startups I've worked at. Some of them have been a whole lot brighter than me. And in all that time, I've never thought "oh wow, how unusual." I just don't get it.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#209

Post by dragonwriter »

cases wrote: post #184
hbags wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's absolutely disgusting that you criticize the victim for documenting what happened to her. It's despicable and downright fucking evil that you basically accuse her of sharing her story solely because she wants attention. The worst part of your god-awful post is that it's currently pinned to the top of this board. The fact that your disgusting, insensitive post is at the top is why women don't work in tech…

100% agree. I shouldn't even bother commenting here and this won't be the first time I'm giving up on HN, but seeing the replies you're getting I couldn't leave without at least offering you my support and letting the community know what a sick and twisted bunch of people tech, HN, pg, reddit and the rest of you are. Absolutely disgusting bunch of people. And that's coming from a privileged white male.

> this won't be the first time I'm giving up on HN,

Giving up...you're doing it wrong.

Re: This is What it's Like to Be a Woman at a Bitcoin Meetup

#210

Post by clavalle »

throwawaycoder wrote: post #195
clavalle wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Let's keep words meaning what they mean. But we can say this guy violated her space and insulted her dignity and acted in a way that would make most people cringe if not shun the guy. I wouldn't trust him after seeing him display that behavior. Would you?

"I wouldn't trust him after seeing him display that behavior. Would you?" Of course I wouldn't. Neither would most people in the Bitcoin community. Nevertheless, now we have "this is how women are being treated at Bitcoin meetups". Btw not only would I not trust him, I also wouldn't like him.

In that case, your comment is misplaced.

I don't think this guy represents any group of people either.

I was commenting on why the woman might be justified in worrying about a physical attack if she embarrassed the creep because he obviously doesn't have much in the way of boundaries.

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