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Why I'm Moving My Business From San Francisco To St. Louis

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Re: Why I'm Moving My Business From San Francisco To St. Louis

#201
> 3.8x cheaper than San Francisco. Moving to St Louis is going to almost quadruple my company’s runway.

It's inversely proportional to your personal rent? Your company has no revenue, no employees, no office, no servers, no contractors, no contracts, no other costs in general? Is that really a company?

I don't think you're moving a business, I think you're just moving.

Re: Why I'm Moving My Business From San Francisco To St. Louis

#202
Long-time lurker, just saw this post about my hometown so I created an account.

I have a tech business in St. Louis. I love living in St. Louis and will never live anywhere else.

A few comments:

It is extremely hard to hire\find good programmers. I've posted job ads on Dice and Craigslist, and received 2 or 3 replies. I don't think I received ONE reply from Dice. The replies you get are people that can't answer the most basic questions.

You will HAVE to use a recruiting firm that will try to poach the talent and you have to search out resumes. It will cost at least $50k for a programmer that can't even answer the most basic questions in an interview. Fortunately, I got very lucky and found one of the most kick-ass people on the planet.

In regards to East. St Louis, as other people mentioned, it is NOT in Missouri, it's in ILLINOIS. The only reason people in St Louis go to East St Louis is because the bars stop serving at 1:30 or 2AM. If you want to drink past that, everyone goes to East St. Louis. Either that, or to go to strip clubs. Given that, if it's a Friday or Saturday night, you'll see a bunch of other St Louisians over in East St Louis at Pops, or the Oz, or at strip clubs. It is definitely a bad area though. I've been to East St Louis many times and have never felt threatened.

The bad part of St Louis is North County. Unless you live there, the only reason to go there is for drugs. I've never been there, and as far as I know, you can't drink past 2AM there, and they don't have any strip clubs. I've driven by there many times, and I knew someone that worked in North County for years and never had any issues. It's like any other city, there are parts you don't want to venture through by yourself, late at night.

Unfortunately, I think most of the crime in both E St Louis, and North county, is local, black on black crime.

Downtown is somewhat desolate. If you want to live downtown, there are some cool areas like Soulard which is making a come back. Most people live in West County, South County, St Charles county, etc. I would never live downtown. Most of the action is outside of downtown. There are good sized office buildings in Clayton, West County, etc.

In the county areas, there are cops all over the place(which is a good thing). I've lived in a lot of places, and the bottom line is it's one of the safest places I've lived.

I read HN all the time, but don't know much about this start-up. Welcome to St. Louis though! As others mentioned, there are a lot of talented people here.

Re: Why I'm Moving My Business From San Francisco To St. Louis

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, perhaps it's just difficult to understand it as a joke when you used the word "panini" all your life!

Ok, I'll give you a pass if you are from Italy, for example. However, the story was about the Bay Area... and growing up in California I noticed a trend that exploded about 10 years ago. Fancy, casual restaurants stopped selling sandwiches and "grilled-cheese", upgraded the bread, and started calling them Panini. The price was also increased by $5 dollars/per for a marginally better product. Coffee has had a similar…

As a matter of fact, I am from Italy :)

Re: Why I'm Moving My Business From San Francisco To St. Louis

#204
post #36
post #18

The current San Francisco influx is unsustainable. If you're somewhere else in the world and thinking about coming here to do a startup, I wish I could convince you to change your mind. San Francisco is incredibly expensive. Rents have shot up by ~50% since 2008, office space is following the same trend, and competition for (even mediocre) programmers is intense. Worse, a lot of the cultural diversity that made San F…

People have been saying for decades that NYC is unsustainable, yet it's still the center of the country for finance. San Francisco could well become the next New York: software engineers getting paid $300k/year and talking about how they're not really "rich" because they can't even afford to buy a 2 bedroom condo.

The finance industry is entirely dependent on proximity, even more so with the increase of algo. At the highest level of business-dealings, your company has to be within "10 minutes midtown mid-afternoon traffic" distance from the people you meet with (clients and other financial companies) in order to be taken seriously. This is why NY hedge funds tend to be clustered around Midtown East and banks are around Battery Park.

The tech industry doesn't really have such requirements. People are comfortable with working remotely and using video conferencing; more importantly, the tech industry doesn't have regulatory requirements like the financial industry does that require people to conduct business from a physical office.

Whether SF is sustainable or not, well, I lean towards not, but in the long-term it looks pretty bad socioeconomically. Personally, I have no desire to live in the bay area and look for work elsewhere.

Signed: Former hedge fund employee and New Yorker.

Re: Why I'm Moving My Business From San Francisco To St. Louis

#205
post #57
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is becoming quite homogenous here. There's just a ton of really wealthy, well-paid business/engineer types. I've heard varied reports on dating. Some friends are very successful, others no so much. This seems to be more a personal situation then dependent on the culture of the city as a whole. You just gotta get on that tinders or cupes or grindr if that's your thing and play the game just like any other city. It'…

[deleted]

Monoculture is bad no matter what group it is. I think there's just a different perception of language. Those of us who post often about class struggle issues (clearly the group I'm in) aren't always blaming white people (at least I'm not) but just trying to identify that it's a problem.

If there's anyone in SF who deserves blame for the current situation, it's stakeholders (people with land who don't want zoning changed to preserve their "views") and NIMBY types, who are often the same. None of this would be a problem if responsible zoning and development could be done.

...but I see things from the perspective of a poor white person rather than a rich one.

Re: Why I'm Moving My Business From San Francisco To St. Louis

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That site is a brilliant resource. Thanks for sharing. One of my main considerations when moving somewhere is the climate. It would be cool if the site had links to places with similar climates (could be calculated with some kind of distance metric from all the variables). I loved the climate in Sydney, so it would be nice to see a list of places in the world where it's similar.

No problem. That's actually the first time I've seen it as well, and it seems to have pretty much all the information I'd like about climate. And yeah, I've never looked around for one, but being able to search for cities within similar bounds would be nice. Makes me wonder if there are national weather databases you could use to perform your own queries and get similar results.

I found this which seems good.

http://mikemcbrearty.com/climate/

One feature I would like would be the ability to filter results by continent (or even more fine grained filters).

Re: Why I'm Moving My Business From San Francisco To St. Louis

#207
post #156
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can you link/name some of that super-expensive shaving equipment please?

I suspect he/she is referring to Bevel. Although I think the commenter fails to realize the value add of the product.

By all means, I'd love to know what kind of value it adds. Up to this point, I've assumed that this, and products in this category, are some sort of hipster fad.

Re: Why I'm Moving My Business From San Francisco To St. Louis

#208
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Detroit isn't like that because all the black people moved in, it's like that because all the white people moved out once black people started moving in.

Then why don't non-white people move in to SF, just like in Detroit? Alright, enough with the wisecracks. The people moving in during gentrification are rich or rather richer than the current residents. Just because the overwhelming majority happen to be white is a mere coincidence arising of multiple factors. These people are not really white/black/brown, their only true color is Green, like the dollar bills in thei…

> This is a class issue that is always conflated as a race issue, with the the same lame excuse: because, history.

Do you think using class differences to cover up racism is only a historical thing?

Re: Why I'm Moving My Business From San Francisco To St. Louis

#209
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect he/she is referring to Bevel. Although I think the commenter fails to realize the value add of the product.

By all means, I'd love to know what kind of value it adds. Up to this point, I've assumed that this, and products in this category, are some sort of hipster fad.

hipster fad? double edge safety razors have been around since at least 1930. not really a 'fad' ;)

they normally provide a better/closer shave, much much cheaper blades (compared to gillette), greater selection of blades/razors. there are probably more advantages.

http://www.dovo.com/_english/merkur.html

Re: Why I'm Moving My Business From San Francisco To St. Louis

#210
post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why don't non-white people move in to SF, just like in Detroit? Alright, enough with the wisecracks. The people moving in during gentrification are rich or rather richer than the current residents. Just because the overwhelming majority happen to be white is a mere coincidence arising of multiple factors. These people are not really white/black/brown, their only true color is Green, like the dollar bills in thei…

> This is a class issue that is always conflated as a race issue, with the the same lame excuse: because, history. Do you think using class differences to cover up racism is only a historical thing?

It is so not a historical thing. But racism is not the only thing that is causing the class differences in this specific context, is it now?
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