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I Hope My Father Dies Soon

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Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#201

Post by mcv »

mortyseinfeld wrote: post #93
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #26

Since this concerns the U.S. government, I'll say that the vendetta against euthanasia and doctor-assisted suicide by the Christian right is puzzling. The Bible has a very ambivalent view on suicide (as with any other topic), the tale of Samson being a prime example. The main argument against suicide comes from Corinthians, but it is starkly contradicted by other passages. A person who is slowly succumbing, immobile,…

You talk a lot about the "christian right", and I would agree with you on this particular case, but the "socialist left" is far more intrusive in our lives than the "christian right" is. Get the government out our lives and stop pretending that we need the government to be our nanny.

> the "socialist left" is far more intrusive in our lives than the "christian right"

Is it? As far as I can see, the "socialist left" in the US is utterly powerless and negligible. Even the "christian left" has more impact.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#202

Post by mcv »

k-mcgrady wrote: post #105
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #26

Since this concerns the U.S. government, I'll say that the vendetta against euthanasia and doctor-assisted suicide by the Christian right is puzzling. The Bible has a very ambivalent view on suicide (as with any other topic), the tale of Samson being a prime example. The main argument against suicide comes from Corinthians, but it is starkly contradicted by other passages. A person who is slowly succumbing, immobile,…

>> "The Bible has a very ambivalent view on suicide" I thought the argument against it was simply the commandment 'thou shalt not murder'.

That's what some people say, but the bible is rather clear about abortion not being the same as murder. The punishment for killing an unborn baby is a fine paid to the parents.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#203

Post by cLeEOGPw »

Apocryphon wrote: post #132
cLeEOGPw wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no problem at all. Wanting to live forever is just your body's primitive instinct, and you should be intelligent enough to understand that people don't need you, or anyone, being around for longer than you will live already. Just look at the current old people - how they drag the whole progress, the whole society back. Now Imagine what would happen if everyone would be old - stagnation, that's what. Human br…

If clinical immortality was possible, who's to say that mental rejuvenation couldn't be possible, as well? And that people will develop new psychologies as they become immortal?

Mental rejuvenation would mean wiping out your brain and growing new one, which would mean a new person. Brain has a limit on how fast it can adapt over time by design, not because of some illness.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#204

Post by FireBeyond »

ygmelnikova wrote: post #190
rodgerd wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please feel free to demonstrate that the majority of opposition to voluntary euthanasia in the United States is driven by groups other than Christian ones.

1. Hippocrates 2..

?

You may, or may not be aware, that the very vast majority of physicians practicing in the US today have never sworn an oath, let alone the Hippocratic Oath (which amongst other things, forbids surgery)?

As an EMS provider, my anecdotal evidence in the Pacific Northwest has providers overwhelmingly in support of "Death With Dignity" legislation.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#205

Post by FireBeyond »

gohrt wrote: post #164
JshWright wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in a similar position on a fairly regular basis, and I can tall you that DNRs absolutely do matter. It would take the threat of physical violence to get me to perform ACLS on someone with a valid DNR (this is in a prehospital EMS setting). A DNR represents the expressed wishes of the patient. Disregarding that is a serious breach of medical this. I'm not sure how often she came across that particular dilemma. As…

As a pre-hospital EMS provider, how do you have time to determine the presence and validity of a DNR before making your choice?

In addition to what Josh says, in ambiguous situations, we will begin CPR or other life-saving measures whilst efforts are made to obtain/ascertain. We can always discontinue these efforts - on the other hand, delayed starts of such measures are more likely (if they result in survival at all) to end up with exactly the kinds of situations described here, brain damage, serious side effects, and the like.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#206

Post by aidenn0 »

kabdib wrote: post #137
burntsushi wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religious based lobby groups don't force politicians to create and enforce particular laws. Politicians do it voluntarily.

They do it for votes and contributions. They do it for hire . I guess that it is also voluntary, but only in the sense that if they don't do it, they don't paid. [I know, politicians are salaried, too. Let's make a distinction...]

Adams equally condemned all involved. If someone tortured your father in the traditional sense, it would not get them off to say "I was doing it for hire" nor would the hands be clean of those who paid the torturer.

I see nothing inconsistent about holding all parties involved responsible.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#207

Post by Schwolop »

spindritf wrote: post #68
vezzy-fnord wrote: post #26

Since this concerns the U.S. government, I'll say that the vendetta against euthanasia and doctor-assisted suicide by the Christian right is puzzling. The Bible has a very ambivalent view on suicide (as with any other topic), the tale of Samson being a prime example. The main argument against suicide comes from Corinthians, but it is starkly contradicted by other passages. A person who is slowly succumbing, immobile,…

> The religion is notably fascinated with martyrdom Martyrdom and suicide are nothing alike. To a Christian at least. About the same time I read a solemn flippancy by some free thinker: he said that a suicide was only the same as a martyr. The open fallacy of this helped to clear the question. Obviously a suicide is the opposite of a martyr. A martyr is a man who cares so much for something outside him, that he forge…

Call it "Doctor-assisted martyrdom" then. I'll be a martyr for the cause of not spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on something pointless.

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#208

Post by darkarmani »

eitland wrote: post #72
darkarmani wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Physician assisted suicide is a super slippery slope This has been disproven by the countries that have implemented it and not "slipped...unless you have some evidence of it being slippery?

Well, abortion is a similar example. Where I live abortion has been allowed since I don't know when. Doctors have been able to opt out from assisting. This fall politicians and pro abortion started making noise about how doctors that wouldn't participate should lose their license. So, there is your slippery slope I guess.

> This fall politicians and pro abortion started making noise about how doctors that wouldn't participate should lose their license.

That's a terrible example of a slippery slope. It sounds like the slope is so not-slippery that the best they could do was make a lot of noise about how things should be. If the slope was slippery, shouldn't they have easily passed a bill with very little friction?

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#209

Post by GalacticDomin8r »

jamie_ca wrote: post #81
GalacticDomin8r wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bible doesn't condemn suicide(or abortion) anywhere in it directly. However, as with any good moral book, it is ambiguous. You can use it advocate any position you chose. > Yet the Christian right insists that the agony be prolonged to a maximum. Christianity didn't always hold this view. I suppose some of the movement comes from the commandment "Thou shall not kill". Of course that is a very poor translation. A…

The one I've heard as being somewhat more accurate is "Thou shalt not murder." That is, pre-meditated and with intent. The current version could wind up damning you for self-defence.

I don't think murder is a better translation, but my thoughts on the bible are best expressed by Tim Minchin's "The Good Book".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr1I3mBojc0

Re: I Hope My Father Dies Soon

#210

Post by primroot »

gdwatson wrote: post #195
gordaco wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most prominent examples can be found in Mother Teresa of Calcuta, who had some disturbing ideas about suffering. To the point of denying painkillers to terminal patients.

Has this ever been conclusively documented? I've seen accusations by some and denials by those close to her, but never any proof of the claim.

This book may be a good start http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Missionary_Position
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