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NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

theguardian.com

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Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#201

Post by krylonkid »

Zigurd wrote: post #199
krylonkid wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia and Canada have info sharing deals with the NSA but their citizens are not mad at their governments. Germans howl when a US military base might close. Serious cognitive dissonance does not deserve endless vapid repetition and HN users rightly flag such nonsense.

Each one of these stories brings new revelations, most of which have some impact on the trustworthiness of US technology businesses. So, while you may be right that countries that appear so far to be vassals with limited independence won't boycott US products, that's not most of the world.

Do you not see the hypocrisy of Australians and Canadians? Virtually all of the west? Is Europe going to side with Russia or China? They certainly aren't going to defend themselves.

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#202

Post by [deleted] »

00rion wrote: post #173
ihsw wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The next step is bloodless, and the Stasi had it right. > By the 1970s, the Stasi had decided that methods of overt persecution which had been employed up to that time, such as arrest and torture, were too crude and obvious. It was realised that psychological harassment was far less likely to be recognised for what it was, so its victims, and their supporters, were less likely to be provoked into active resistance, g…

I'm curious to know what can be done to subvert this form of control both online and in the real world. Zersetzung sounds incredibly frightening and you're 100% correct that that's the direction we're going.

[deleted]

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#203

Post by krylonkid »

moocowduckquack wrote: post #198
krylonkid wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whining is a pathetically accepted pastime in Europe. It assures they will never do anything about their position in the world, which should be equal or more with the US, and condemns them to live in a world where they are helpless.

We only settled into our long period of whining after stomping round the world and setting fire to bits of it whenever people complained. I sort of prefer us in our current mode.

Fair enough. Hopefully the US will eventually pull back and take better care of ourselves regardless of the consequences for Europe.

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#204

Post by grey-area »

jmilloy wrote: post #171

I feel we are taking our eyes off the ball. Domestic spying violates constitutional rights. More to the point, I don't want to support an institution with programs that violate my privacy, no matter what benefits such programs provide. But isn't international spying is different? Honestly, I don't mind supporting an institution with an external espionage programs. Isn't in my best interest? Does it harm me? What are…

Possible concrete repercussions include:

Refusal of the EU bloc to cooperate over sharing banking and passenger data, and potentially other treaties down the line

Refusal of large South American nations to do trade deals or negotiate with the US, and a decline in US influence in the region

A move away from American dominance of the internet, and a reluctance to use companies with servers based in based in the US

The decline of the American empire, which is based on the tacit consent of the nations within their alliances like NATO (this one is more a long term potential outcome).

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#205

Post by malandrew »

If I were the leader of a major world power right now, I would push for a law in my country that decriminalizes the hacking of any government systems of countries that have proven hostile to my countries government. The only exception would be the hacking of public infrastructure like transportation systems and public utilities. Everything else would be fair game. Seems like this approach would introduce and element of M.A.D. into the mix that would mitigate the current hostile actions we are seeing from the US via the NSA and China via the PLA.

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#206

Post by moocowduckquack »

krylonkid wrote: post #203
moocowduckquack wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We only settled into our long period of whining after stomping round the world and setting fire to bits of it whenever people complained. I sort of prefer us in our current mode.

Fair enough. Hopefully the US will eventually pull back and take better care of ourselves regardless of the consequences for Europe.

It would probably get a bit safer.

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#208

Post by sbirchall »

AaronIG wrote: post #126
sbirchall wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psh, it's not the police that are the flashpoint IMO it is the marines. Their entry requirements are so lax it is beyond scary.

Interesting. I'm currently stationed at MCRD San Diego (Navy, though), so I get to see some of how their recruitment and boot process works. Lax in what ways (assuming you're talking about the U.S., not the Royal Marines)?

I'm sorry I can't find the article I read (about 2 years ago and it may well have been from a HN link if anyone recognises it?).

In said article it explains how since the Iraq invasion the entry requirements for the U.S. Marines have slipped on almost every front. Mental health, criminal convictions, education and even physical fitness requirements have all been reduced significantly and the striking thing about the article was that it made the comparison between the Marines and the SS - most especially the Dirlewanger Brigade. It was a strained, but apt, comparison that stated the last time a military unit had so drastically augmented it's entry requirements was in putting together that infamous squad for the purposes of punishment and outright terror. Shock and awe indeed.

Now that is a hell of a comparison to make and a direct appeal to Godwin, but as other people are pointing out the gradual decline of the U.S. into a totalitarian police surveillance state and it's military deployments overseas can't help but make this commentator think of the U.S. as being the last bastion of fascism(c).

Good luck to you, Aaron. My brother is in the Military here in the U.K. so I've had to man up and put my ideologies to the test. I don't agree with what the Military Industrial Complex are doing, but I'm acutely aware how one should judge these things on the correct scale. Each individuals actions must be judged very differently from those of the unit, and in that way I think I justify being proud of my brother whilst simultaneously condemning the system as a whole.

Rainier Maria Rilke may have helped me a bit there.

Re: NSA monitored calls of 35 world leaders

#209

Post by differentView »

pyoung wrote: post #77
differentView wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean an unknown person or group that has control of the NSA intelligence is effectively running the United States?

No, it means that the NSA can, and has, collected data on just about anyone. What they do with it, my guess is not much unless there is an actual national security threat, is still up for question.

Am I being too cynical to think that if the person/group with this intelligence wants to move the United States in a certain direction, they can easily threaten, blackmail, or leak embarrassing/illegal information about those politicians/high-ranking military officers/CEOs of large corporations standing in their way.

I am not saying every powerful person can be blackmailed, threatened, or have career-ruining secrets, but even if you have the power to control the actions of 1% of those people, that's a pretty significant power.

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