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I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything

theawl.com

201–210 of 400 posts

Re: I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything

#201

Hipster-hate strikes me as just another thinly veiled form of bullying, and it's interesting to see how readily internet nerds - the people who are disproportionately to have been bullied in the past - engage in it. Look! He's different! Let's make assumptions about his motivations and get him! It's also interesting to see how many times Reddit (and other communities) fly into a rage-fest because of lack of context,…

Author summarizes the rage quite well: "The reaction, then, had nothing to do with hipsters. It was a hatred of people that need to stand out for standing-out's sake. That realization was at once positive and negative—people didn't hate me because I was a hipster, they hated me because I looked like I was nakedly desperate for attention, and had gone about that attention-grabbing by glomming on to marginalized trends…

I think is is a really interesting point, and it's something I spend quite a bit of time thinking about. Why is some attention-seeking behavior generally seen as acceptable, even positive, while other attention-seeking behavior is seen as pathetic or rage-inducing?

Based on my own anecdotal experience, I think part of the anger comes from a sense of discomfort at the dissonance between how one thinks the attention-seeker is being perceived and how one thinks the attention seeker believes they are being perceived.

In the case of someone using a typewriter, the issue isn't simply that one thinks that person looks foolish, it's the dissonance between knowing they look foolish and imagining that they think they look super cool. Dissonance leads to discomfort, discomfort leads to anger.

With other kinds of attention-seeking public behavior -- street performance, for example -- even if one doesn't enjoy it, there's a much closer match between how the performer believes themselves to be perceived and how they are actually perceived (assuming they are competent).

I harbor no ill-will towards hipsters, self-identified or otherwise. But if I imagine someone using a typewriter in Starbucks, it does make me uncomfortable, and by far the biggest part of that is imaging that person thinking they are really funny or really cool.

Re: I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything

#202
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, wearing a beat-up $10 fedora with a T-shirt and jeans is not a great fashion decision. (But note that "poor fashion decisions" does not mean "disgusting, reprehensible goblin," despite the usual fashionista hyperbole.) I have a nice, properly-fitted felt fedora that I try to keep in good shape, and I wear it with a nice button-down and slacks at a bare minimum, usually a tie and sometimes a full suit. I've had…

> But note that "poor fashion decisions" does not mean "disgusting, reprehensible goblin," despite the usual fashionista hyperbole. You're reading their casual implication in the wrong direction. What they usually mean is that disgusting, reprehensible goblin implies poor fashion decisions . Thus, by Bayesian inference, poor fashion decisions are evidence which increases the likelihood that you are a disgusting, repr…

So, what do you think is the prior probability of being a disgusting reprehensible goblin? And what is the difference in likelihood of poor fashion decisions between goblins and non-goblins? Seems like would be interesting to actually try and find out which personality traits correspond most with poor fashion decisions (presumably introversion would be a given?)

Re: I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with enjoying the feeling of being counterculture? This whole anti-hipster sentiment is so bizarre to me. It's all about policing other peoples' fashion/taste/activities without reason. The idea that hipsters are somehow not genuine doesn't make any sense. What is there to be genuine to ? If you use an old film camera because you like the photos it takes and are fascinated by how it operates, more power…

>What's wrong with enjoying the feeling of being counterculture? In terms of a stereotypical hipster, it's because it's being smug that you're not following the crowd. But you get there by paying a lot of attention to what the crowd likes, and using that as your primary decision maker. AKA you're following the crowd. It's okay to like being unique, but find a niche though your own preferences, not though hypocritical…

I suppose there is a kind of self-contradiction is trying to be "fashionably unfashionable" which seems ripe for mockery.

But, in practice, the mockery boils down to an exercise in More Authentic Than Thou based on guesses from superficial details. Isn't making judgements about authenticity based on a few superficial details an even more loathsome exercise in hypocrisy?

I do like EvanKelly's point here: "What is there to be genuine to."?

What the heck is someone supposed to wear that is neither an overt exercise in conformity or a contrived exercise in non-conformity? What would in between or opting out of the pretense look like?

In fact, it might look a lot like Mr. Hermelin, whose clothes look functional and cheap, without any visible labels, without any apparent in-factory distressing of the fabric.

Re: I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They drink PBR, I think that says enough about self-sacrificing if one has any tastebuds left.

PBR is very cheap, and actually very tolerable when you are in the market for cheap American lagers. Before it got a reputation for being "hipster" it was a popular "blue collar" beer, and for good reason. I'd call it better than Budweiser, worse than Coors. Certainly better than the other heavyweight in 'cheap booze that young people drink': Natural Light. For some reason drinking natty light is not seen to be as da…

Good points. I think they're all pretty awful (relatively speaking, if one is doing more than getting plastered), but somehow only the one gets the negative connotation. Though, I will admit my early college years I did drink them all at some point regrettably, even at least one PBR that I know of offhand.

Re: I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other funny thing is that there's a violent dislike of mainstream media on websites such as Reddit, and constant criticism when news stations take things out of context. Then they do things like this themselves on a daily basis!

You sound like a newspaper journalist from the 90's when you speak of Reddit as "they".

Reddit - collection of mainly unemployed young left wing anti-government, anti-corporation, anti-mainstream types who have far too much time on their hands to look at memes and commenting.

Re: I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the part that makes me cynical about humanity. Reddit isn't some unique group of particularly hateful, particularly judgmental people. They are, in the grand scheme things, a pretty typical and pretty vanilla set that's probably a decent sample of "young and western". Which is to say, their ability to fly into a collective rage and stampede through the lives of innocent people isn't really unique to them, it's…

You can make several generalisations about reddit users though. They're likely anti-government, anti-corporation, ant-advertising, anti-mainstream. They're likely left of centre politically. They're not busy - that's why they spend time commenting on Reddit. More likely unemployed / students / etc. They absolutely love to be outraged by something. By definition, they are the sort of person who would comment on Reddit…

These are not special reddit features, you can make generalizations about any group of people that isn't randomly chosen.

That doesn't mean that "the group of people in your office building" or "the group of people in your neighborhood / town / state / country" or "the group of people that you bowl with" or "the group of people in your extended family" are "hiveminds" though. That is like accusing this piece of granite (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Granite_Y...) of being gray.

In my experience, "hivemind" is just bullshit people talk about when they want a way of saying that they are better than other people, but can't bring themselves to commit such a crime against modesty forthright. You'll notice that it is never "reddit is a hivemind, and oh yeah, I totally agree with it." It is always "reddit is a hivemind, and I disagree with it"

Re: I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything

#207
"The reaction, then, had nothing to do with hipsters. It was a hatred of people that need to stand out for standing-out's sake."

Isn't this close to the most common understanding of the word "hipster"? People that are middle-class, want to stand out, and also come off as a bit arty.

Re: I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything

#208

Hipster-hate strikes me as just another thinly veiled form of bullying, and it's interesting to see how readily internet nerds - the people who are disproportionately to have been bullied in the past - engage in it. Look! He's different! Let's make assumptions about his motivations and get him! It's also interesting to see how many times Reddit (and other communities) fly into a rage-fest because of lack of context,…

It's interesting how in one sentence you identify a slight against 'hipsters', and then fall into slighting another group in the same comment...

Re: I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author summarizes the rage quite well: "The reaction, then, had nothing to do with hipsters. It was a hatred of people that need to stand out for standing-out's sake. That realization was at once positive and negative—people didn't hate me because I was a hipster, they hated me because I looked like I was nakedly desperate for attention, and had gone about that attention-grabbing by glomming on to marginalized trends…

I think is is a really interesting point, and it's something I spend quite a bit of time thinking about. Why is some attention-seeking behavior generally seen as acceptable, even positive, while other attention-seeking behavior is seen as pathetic or rage-inducing? Based on my own anecdotal experience, I think part of the anger comes from a sense of discomfort at the dissonance between how one thinks the attention-se…

I guess it comes down to whether or not we should be patrolling how other people think of themselves.

NO HIPSTER NO! You may think that bringing an Olivetti typewriter into a coffee shop is twee and wonderfully anachronistic, but you just look silly! Know your place Hipster!

I'm generally, genuinely jealous of people who can go through their lives adhering to their own sense of appropriateness and style.

Re: I Am An Object Of Internet Ridicule, Ask Me Anything

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is going to sound inflammatory but I basically consider anyone younger than around 25 to be functionally insane . They're in a period in their life where they seriously believe that they cannot spend the rest of their lives with someone who doesn't have the same taste in music as they do. You're busy cultivating a sense of identity, I get it. But more often than not you grow up and find yourself in love with som…

On the other hand, I have noticed that people over thirty are willing to label people under twenty-five as functionally insane, which strikes me as a bit of an internal contradiction in your post.

Wait until you get here, you'll find the young'uns unbearable to be around too. Just seems to happen...
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