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Google is defragging Android

arstechnica.com

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Re: Google is defragging Android

#201

Post by kalleboo »

ajross wrote: post #186
kalleboo wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And it's a good service, and something that is hard to replicate and thus a competetive advantage. It's a service that Google will not let manufacturers replace even if they want to. Horribly anti-competetive. http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=14923

That may be true, but it's not an issue of denying "GPS" data, which is what the upthread parent was confused about. You can get location output from GPS (or in fact anything else that your platform has wired into the HAL -- it's not specific to GPS per se) data. It's Google's extra, proprietary services that are, well, proprietary. And that's hardly notable IMHO. There are lots of players in this space, it just happ…

> Google has done it better and is using that to drive sales of its "Play Services" product to OEMs

Google aren't competing in the "Wifi to location" space on merit. They're competing on "we won't let you use our platform if you use a competitor in this space". They're becoming the 1990's Microsoft. This is exactly the shit people talk about when they say Android isn't open anymore.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#202

Post by spion »

saurik wrote: post #198
zenocon wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the first couple sentences on the github page

I don't see how that answers my question. I did not ask "did you steal this guy's code"... I am curious what your project does differently, when I would choose to use one over the other, and why your project exists. To provide a example, if someone asks me "how does Cydia compare to Installer", I say that it is based on an industry standard packaging system (as opposed to a one-off proprietary one), has package depen…

If you read the second paragraph, you'll notice the difference: android-chromium-view is a toolkit to help you build your own chromeview-alike using the latest version of Chromium.

Its a really great project - I'll be trying it out with my own apps.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#203

Post by ajross »

kalleboo wrote: post #201
ajross wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That may be true, but it's not an issue of denying "GPS" data, which is what the upthread parent was confused about. You can get location output from GPS (or in fact anything else that your platform has wired into the HAL -- it's not specific to GPS per se) data. It's Google's extra, proprietary services that are, well, proprietary. And that's hardly notable IMHO. There are lots of players in this space, it just happ…

> Google has done it better and is using that to drive sales of its "Play Services" product to OEMs Google aren't competing in the "Wifi to location" space on merit. They're competing on "we won't let you use our platform if you use a competitor in this space". They're becoming the 1990's Microsoft. This is exactly the shit people talk about when they say Android isn't open anymore.

Oh stop. Google is limiting access to their Play Services Location API (a feature so obscure that even the technical folks in this very thread don't seem to understand what it does and think it controls access to GPS data) to OEMs willing to license the whole Play Services package.

Are you seriously arguing that that is somehow equivalent to Microsoft using their monopoly position in the market (something Google doesn't even have) force OEMs into bundling their own web browser (the single most important app of the past two decades)? No. Just no.

I'm sorry, but people who want wifi-to-location data in their Android apps or devices can get it. That's simply not anticompetetive in any sane use of the term.

Your last sentence, telling, pivots your argument pretty wildly from "anticompetetive" to "not open". And yes: if you want to complain about Play Services being proprietary software, non-open, non-collaborative and ultimately freedom-denying, I tend to agree. But the idea of this being somehow an antitrust issue is ridiculous.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#204

Post by abruzzi »

bsaul wrote: post #175

It seems that this article doesn't really separate between user concerns (having the latest google apps) and developper concerns (access to latest APIs). From what I understand, this means developpers will be able to rely on android "services" being updated more often and more consistently available. However, what about things like using new UI components ? For this, you still need the latest OS version, right ? If t…

One problem is the article specifically states that API updates will still be tied to OS updates. I know different people have different concepts of fragmentation, but to me the key was the un-updated 2.2 device didn't have the API to support newer apps.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#205

Post by acowlichenbag »

http://dpaste.com/1365011/

http://redd.it/1lnun3

I killed christopher 'aempirei' abad with my 5" dick

Cowabunga, dude!

And now you're going to die wearing that stupid little hat. How does it feel!?

You got caught with the seat of your pants flying down and now everyone laughs at your little picopenis on a daily basis.

Microchipping a fellow hacker just because you can't sniff out your own? Hilariously inept.

Throwing a well-known, contributing veteran of the hack/trollscene into a mental institution just because you had a hangover and forgot to take your klonopin? Over the top.

Having a wanton disregard for the history of the internet, the hackscene, trollscene and everything about humanity in general? Get a clue. Your holier-than-thou attitude can screw back off to the 1980's.

Yes, folks, christopher 'ambient empire' abad has been bitchtagging and torturing anyone that walks by him just because, well, "I feel like it!"

Yes, folks, christopher 'ambient empire' abad fails to understand the first rule of the U.S. system: you can always just buy people off with cash. ' We've been talking to your friends, coworkers and they've been telling us what a lazy, unappreciative little shit you are. Not to mention a sociopath of the lowest order.

You won the birth lottery and coasted your way to the top of the U.S. system on a skateboard. Now it's going to be a fun ride when we push your little deck the way back down.

You are nothing but a barking little dog who got caught sneaking up the backstairs into the big people's club and now you're being thrown out the window.

Your last thought as you realize nothing of value will be lost when your head cracks on the floor of a 12x12 supermax prison cell: "I like to copy from my 1337 civics textbook."

Sayanora, sucker!

Malaclypse the Younger

http://pastie.org/8295259

http://pastebin.com/6CsUg70D

Re: Google is defragging Android

#206

Post by evilduck »

icarus127 wrote: post #48
lazerwalker wrote: post #9

It's worth noting how closely Android's apparent path going forward mirror's Apple's strategy with both OS X and iOS: closed end-user components built on top of an open source core. I guess Google's realized that "openness" isn't a meaningful market differentiator for the average consumer.

I'm interested, what is the open source core in OSX and iOS? I was not aware of any. I know they share code with BSD but I didn't think it was to the extent that one could compare Apple's OS relationship with BSD to Android's relationship with Linux.

http://opensource.apple.com/

Re: Google is defragging Android

#207

Post by zenocon »

saurik wrote: post #198
zenocon wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read the first couple sentences on the github page

I don't see how that answers my question. I did not ask "did you steal this guy's code"... I am curious what your project does differently, when I would choose to use one over the other, and why your project exists. To provide a example, if someone asks me "how does Cydia compare to Installer", I say that it is based on an industry standard packaging system (as opposed to a one-off proprietary one), has package depen…

ChromeView is unfinished business; the author has stated that he doesn't have time to commit to it right now. Certain things are broken in it like native scrolling. I started using it, and the more I got into the Chromium source, I realized that Content Shell is a better starting point (he started with AndroidWebView). Mine uses Chromium Content Shell -- native scrolling works great. The browser seems to be fully functional and performs quite well. What is left for you, or anyone interested, is to write your own Java/C++/JavaScript glue to make it into what you want it to be.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#208

Post by jffry »

austinz wrote: post #27
lazerwalker wrote: post #9

It's worth noting how closely Android's apparent path going forward mirror's Apple's strategy with both OS X and iOS: closed end-user components built on top of an open source core. I guess Google's realized that "openness" isn't a meaningful market differentiator for the average consumer.

I'd like to know what technical benefits there are, if any, from this roundabout approach by Google. I suspect there aren't many, if any, and this is more of a tactic to 'circle around' and retroactively gain tighter control over the OS. (Also, see Google's purchase of Motorola with the intention of making phones with better hardware-software integration...)

They (Google) can release new versions of these core services to almost all users immediately, without those users having to wait for their devices' manufacturers to go through the usual testing and shittification (aka "skinning and customization") process.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#209

Post by moca »

ttflee wrote: post #153
moca wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android is about as open as it used to be. The core OS is mostly open source, the drivers are mostly closed binaries owned by chip vendors, the apps are closed binaries owned by Google. Google Play services, by its name and nature, is part of Google service. So it is just as closed as it used to be. Over time, more features are added OS, drivers, apps. That doesn't really change the overall picture much. Amazon and C…

Almost no major producer of Android phones in China (mainland) IIRC, has deployed or would deploy Google Play, perhaps as a result of both their marketing strategies, that favors some local mobile Internet service providers, and consequence of the back-off stance of Google to the Chinese govn't, the cause of which is quite complicated though. As status quo, Google's services are largely compromised due to unknown or…

Most Google services are blocked in China by Chinese government. Chinese companies, like Xiaomi and Baidu, want to build their own ecosystems to make profit. Their management said so publicly during talks that I attended in person.

Re: Google is defragging Android

#210

Post by engrenage »

Pxtl wrote: post #173
e12e wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see any reason why the play app shouldn't be Free software. So, while I might be a minority, I'd certainly like to see all of it opened up. I'd much prefer a reality where the play service and app is open, and which upstream source you trust is defined by which certificates you trust, and nothing else. That'd make it trivial to set up trusted sources for a company, for example.

Well, from a business standpoint, there are a lot of companies planning to piggyback off of Android to launch their own OS platforms. These competitors represent a real threat to the Android platform. When Google was all alone in the smartphone OS space (chief competitors being BBOS and iOS, which aren't licensed to 3rd party manufacturers) they didn't have to worry about competing for the attentions of manufacturers…

Android was open as long as people did what google wanted with it.

That's the antithesis of open.

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