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"Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

bugzilla.mozilla.org

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Re: "Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

#201

Post by copypasteweb »

foobarbazqux wrote: post #138
gnosis wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Javascript, Flash, HTML 5, and virtually all the rest of the HTML "enhancements" are a cancer on the web. Honestly, the only website that I can think of where using Javascript actually does something useful that I'd have a hard time doing better on a standalone app on my own machine is Google Maps, where it's nice to be able to scroll around by dragging the map with the mouse. But even there, I'd gladly sacrifice tha…

Youtube needs either Flash or HTML5, do you think it's worthless?

works well for playing video without any JavaScript.

Re: "Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

#202

Post by marshray »

piyush_soni wrote: post #137
ubernostrum wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Advanced settings" dialogs tend to indicate poorly-thought-out interface design. Rather than demonstrating careful attention to what features are useful and important enough to ship, they become dumping grounds for "something someone asked for once".

What makes you say "Advanced settings" dialogs mean poorly thought out UI? I think it's a very good way to tell novice users, "don't open this panel if you don't know what you are doing". And if they still do it and something wrong happens, they'd immediately know the reason.

User has trouble with software. User says that software is "too hard to use". A usability/interaction team are tasked with making the software "easier to use" and set off to find "confusing and infrequently used" features they can kill off.

Obviously anything on the 'Advanced...' dialog makes an easy target.

Re: "Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

#203

Post by vlasta2 »

just2n wrote: post #169
gkoberger wrote: post #22

Here's a very relevant blog post by Alex Limi of Mozilla: http://limi.net/checkboxes-that-kill/ Most sites these days that aren’t just displaying content will fail in interesting & mysterious ways if you don’t have JavaScript enabled. For the general population, Firefox will appear broken. And yes, I know that some people have reasons (privacy, web development) to turn off JavaScript. There are many add-ons that can…

I have to say that this article is actually quite terrible, as is the opinion that any option that might ever be confusing to a user is an option that shouldn't ship with the product. The thesis of the article is: "Well, we have met the enemy, and he is us.* In the currently shipping version, Firefox ships with many options that will render the browser unusable to most people, right in the main settings ui." The solu…

This was true 10 years ago. These days, every additional setting the application has is a liability. There is a growing group of people, who are scared to have conversation with their browser and make any informed decisions. They ignore such messages. Other people will change any setting they can find and then forget about it. Then they will be surprised and angry at the application that it is not working.

My experience shows that the more options an application has, the lazier the author was. What do you do as a software developer when there are two ways how to solve a problem? Ask the user which way to use? That is the wrong approach these days. The computer should not ask the user stupid questions. "Do you want to enable JavaScript?" is a stupid question for more than 98% of browser users. Instead of asking questions, software developers should invest the work to come with answers and "read the user's mind". Successful apps can do just that.

Re: "Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

#204

Post by jobigoud »

dewiz wrote: post #159
ubernostrum wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Advanced settings" dialogs tend to indicate poorly-thought-out interface design. Rather than demonstrating careful attention to what features are useful and important enough to ship, they become dumping grounds for "something someone asked for once".

I'm pretty sure that Disable Javascript is not something asked ONCE.

At the moment of this writing, the NoScript extension is the 6th most popular extension.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/extensions/?sort=us...

Re: "Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

#205

Post by pilif »

just2n wrote: post #169
gkoberger wrote: post #22

Here's a very relevant blog post by Alex Limi of Mozilla: http://limi.net/checkboxes-that-kill/ Most sites these days that aren’t just displaying content will fail in interesting & mysterious ways if you don’t have JavaScript enabled. For the general population, Firefox will appear broken. And yes, I know that some people have reasons (privacy, web development) to turn off JavaScript. There are many add-ons that can…

I have to say that this article is actually quite terrible, as is the opinion that any option that might ever be confusing to a user is an option that shouldn't ship with the product. The thesis of the article is: "Well, we have met the enemy, and he is us.* In the currently shipping version, Firefox ships with many options that will render the browser unusable to most people, right in the main settings ui." The solu…

> Don't treat your users like idiots, just provide information that clears up certain odd states by explicitly informing them of something like

you assume that users actually read dialogs presented by the software. This is unfortunately not a correct assumption.

Re: "Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

#206

Post by rlpb »

kondro wrote: post #27

I can't remember the last time I wrote an application that didn't rely on Javascript for even parts of its basic functionality. I simply don't understand why you would want to browse the web without JS enabled and the average user definitely would never turn it off except in error, causing them to think the browser is broken. Every single common-use browser on the Internet supports Javascript, there is no reason to a…

There's now a distinction between a web application and a simple web page.

If I just want to read content, I'm not interested in running your application. I'd rather keep Javascript off and retain my anonymity.

If I actually want to use your application, then sure, I'll enable Javascript for your site.

Re: "Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

#207

Post by keithpeter »

vlasta2 wrote: post #203
just2n wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say that this article is actually quite terrible, as is the opinion that any option that might ever be confusing to a user is an option that shouldn't ship with the product. The thesis of the article is: "Well, we have met the enemy, and he is us.* In the currently shipping version, Firefox ships with many options that will render the browser unusable to most people, right in the main settings ui." The solu…

This was true 10 years ago. These days, every additional setting the application has is a liability. There is a growing group of people, who are scared to have conversation with their browser and make any informed decisions. They ignore such messages. Other people will change any setting they can find and then forget about it. Then they will be surprised and angry at the application that it is not working. My experie…

"These days, every additional setting the application has is a liability."

If we follow this thinking too far, we end up with a closed console like device, or Gnome 4 as parodied last April [1].

Surely there is a case for progressive revealing/enabling of advanced functions?

In the UK, the Blackberry phones are very popular with teenagers because of BBM. This desire to access BBM even extends to students carrying two phones, one an old blackberry handset on wifi and the other an iPhone or whatever. You will find small groups in corners at lunchtime exploring the features of the handsets. Experts will coach those who know less. If I could get that level of peer tutoring going in Maths, I'd have my OBE in the bag quite soon! Users can increase their knowledge provided the unfolding of extra features is managed.

[1] http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20120402

Re: "Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

#208

Post by atesti »

x0x0 wrote: post #70
x0x0 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other thing Alex posted is firefox really gives you no indication of why the internet looks weird and is breaking left and right. So you can disable js or images or ssl and unless you're lucky enough to know a programmer or IT person really have no guide to undoing whatever happened.

replying to myself: one more way apple simply makes better software: safari offers a simple reset option that seems to reset all browser settings. Now, this doesn't help in the case of a user not understanding what went wrong, but I can tell someone over the phone "click on safari -> reset safari" far more easily than walking someone through deleting a firefox profile while saving bookmarks or reinstalling firefox an…

Internet Explorer also has these reset buttons

Re: "Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

#209

Post by Fuxy »

Well JS can be disabled with the help of plugins however I find it ominous that you have to be an expert user/programmer to disabled javascript.

There are a lot of websites out there that use javascript for less than reputable purposes so not being able to disable it when you know you might run into them is insecure.

Like say using tor where having JS enabled is like asking to be tracked.

I know disabling JS is not an option on the modern web but then ship with something like noscript instead don't just leave users exposed.

This is not a feature that can just be removed it needs to be replaced instead.

Re: "Disable Javascript" option removed in Firefox 23

#210

Post by simonbrown »

Arelius wrote: post #126
Gormo wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any empirical evidence that suggests that people accidentally disabling JavaScript and then being confused as to why websites don't look right is a significant problem? The author of that article says: "Is it really worth having a preference panel that benefits fewer than 2% of users overall? — obvious spoiler alert: The answer is no." The answer is yes . If 2% of users have a purpose for it, perhaps it woul…

I don't know of any empirical evidence, but the story normally goes: There is a new Java exploit, and recommendations to remove/disable Java hit the wild. Then while people try to find out how to disable "Java" Find "Disable Javascript" and assume it's related. Perhaps this would be solved by renaming it "Disable Ecmascript" however. I really have no idea how common this is, but have seen it once, from a user that's…

Or make the option to disable Java accessible from there.
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