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Pandora Paid Over $1,300 for 1 Million Plays

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Re: Pandora Paid Over $1,300 for 1 Million Plays

#201

Post by ppradhan »

Maybe.. just maybe... the market is beginning to correct the monies earned by musicians. The heyday of yesteryear when (successful )musicians were paid obscene amounts was due to 1. fewer mainstream musicians and 2. overcharged customers who had no other means of acquiring music and had to pay the price record companies saw fit.

Unsuccessful or moderately successful musicians didn't make a lot even back then.

Now, musicians are basically fighting for attention among a greater number of competitors. The choices are more varied. The output per year has grown significantly and internet has brought international music into the fold further increasing competition for 'ear-time'.

This should make one ask the question: what is the worth of musicians? Why was the high figures of the last decades the 'right' level of earnings and why are they being 'ripped off' today? Is the alleged ripping off due to content delivery platforms (like Pandora) truly taking a larger cut of the revenues compared to delivery platforms of the past (record companies and retail distributors)?

It is not exactly pertinent to put past and present in the same basket, compare the numbers and bring out the pitchforks. Circumstances have to be looked at, and that little question of what the musicians are 'worth' needs to be thought about. What makes musicians worth more than a farmer or a checkout clerk. An even fairer comparision - why is their an income discrepancy between a successful musician and a successful calligrapher. If the worth is more, the market will decide. A given musician will have to continue making music despite low pay if music is their true love. If not, time for career change.

The music industry and consumption is maturing. Musicians need to do the same. There's no point fighting the ebbs and flow of the market by crying foul. My opinions here are bound to be 'polarizing'. Do discuss.

Re: Pandora Paid Over $1,300 for 1 Million Plays

#203

Post by belorn »

whiddershins wrote: post #150
Semaphor wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[citation needed] I'm pretty sure they made the money from selling the music people heard on the radio.

downvote me all you guys want. People in the tech community consistently conflate performing artists (bands and stars you recognize) with composers (songwriters, the people creating the intellectual property, and who are most screwed by the modern economy) a song isn't an advertisement for ANYTHING for the songwriter. It is the entirety of the songwriter's creation. The songwriter does not make a living from t-shirts…

I downvoted you, because your reply do not include a source that supports the claim that an entire generations of songwriters made their living from radio royalties.

The linked blog do nothing of the sort. It simply state that song writers get in average an $800,000 for radio and TV for a "hit song".

It doesn't say how much is TV vs radio. It doesn't say what a hit song mean, or how many CD's such song will in average sell. It doesn't say what the average number of songs of a singular author is in such CD. It doesn't say what the average income from digital downloads are from producing such hit song, or how it effect sales from the authors other works.

And worst of... Its a blog without any source for its data, and has a disclaimer at the bottom that says: ... the information is the opinion of the author only.

Re: Pandora Paid Over $1,300 for 1 Million Plays

#204

Post by ThomPete »

jccalhoun wrote: post #199
ThomPete wrote: post #78

I have said it before and I will say it again. 20 years ago that and thousands of others songs wouldn't even have been played anywhere and definitely not a million times. If you want to live off of making music or as an author or anything else you have to think like a publisher not an artist. Playing music is a joy, something you can enjoy whether you make money or not from it. Living from making music is an opportun…

Actually, I think that if you want to live off of making music you should think like an artist and plan on making most of your money by actually playing music instead of hoping that you can make a living off of music you played decades ago. Intellectual property and royalties were only invented less than 200 years ago and there's no guarantee that people will be able to depend on that as a source of income in the fut…

That was not my point at all. Sorry if that was unclear.

Re: Pandora Paid Over $1,300 for 1 Million Plays

#205

Post by lmm »

whiddershins wrote: post #130
mikeash wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steak. Talking about "if" something that is true weren't doesn't seem very useful to me here. Illegal music sharing is reality and shows no signs of stopping, or being stopped.

I used to believe that, but now I am not as sure. I'm not sure most average people use bit torrent anymore. And the web is an extremely inconvenient way to try to access illegal content.

> I'm not sure most average people use bit torrent anymore.

Yeah, many people don't - because of Pandora and Spotify. Take those away and people will go back to piracy.

Re: Pandora Paid Over $1,300 for 1 Million Plays

#206

Post by ThomPete »

paulhauggis wrote: post #197
ThomPete wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability to make a living is not a right, it's an opportunity. The same opportunity that made it possible for artists to record once and resell in the millions is now working against them. Where where they when the distribution companies who used to make a living from the music industry was laid off? Or the record stores? It's not a right, it's an opportunity.

When unions are discussed here on HN, will you have the same opinion? Many unions force companies to pay workers inflated wages which are well above the current rate.

I am not sure I understand the question. Care to elaborate?

Re: Pandora Paid Over $1,300 for 1 Million Plays

#207

Post by whiddershins »

belorn wrote: post #203
whiddershins wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

downvote me all you guys want. People in the tech community consistently conflate performing artists (bands and stars you recognize) with composers (songwriters, the people creating the intellectual property, and who are most screwed by the modern economy) a song isn't an advertisement for ANYTHING for the songwriter. It is the entirety of the songwriter's creation. The songwriter does not make a living from t-shirts…

I downvoted you, because your reply do not include a source that supports the claim that an entire generations of songwriters made their living from radio royalties. The linked blog do nothing of the sort. It simply state that song writers get in average an $800,000 for radio and TV for a "hit song". It doesn't say how much is TV vs radio. It doesn't say what a hit song mean, or how many CD's such song will in averag…

It is really hard for me to realize how ignorant of the music industry tech people are. Maybe that's because you guys seem delighted to pontificate all day long, without mentioning you have no clue whatsoever how any of it works.

I didn't realize I need a citation to explain what is obvious to any music industry professional: performance royalties from radio play are a major source of revenue for songwriters of hit songs.

If the passle of you want to wave your opinions around for decades while literally enabling and rationalizing the destruction of an industry through targeted technology (napster, for example, originally ONLY supported mp3s) maybe you should do your own research and educate yourself, and not expect me to footnote every assertion.

Otherwise, just admit you want everyone else's IP for free and stop making up justifications.

Re: Pandora Paid Over $1,300 for 1 Million Plays

#210

Post by walshemj »

Sealy wrote: post #184
aresant wrote: post #16

"A good flatterer doesn't lie, but tells his victim selective truths (what a nice color your eyes are). Good PR firms use the same strategy: they give reporters stories that are true, but whose truth favors their clients." I have no idea if David Lowery's original post about making only $16.89 for 1 million plays was distributed by a PR firm, but it sure feels like it. PG's thoughts on PR are spot on, and I love refe…

You raise a very good point aresant. Its a point which everybody should understand. It is not interesting to post a story which says "Pandora Paid Over $1,300 for 1 Million Plays" but it is very interesting to post a story which says "My Song Got Played On Pandora 1 Million Times and All I Got Was $16.89" I watched Mike Arrington (founder of TechCrunch) talk about PR on youtube at a startup seminar and he raised this…

It should be My Song Got Played On Pandora 1 Million Times and All I Got Was $1300.

Compare that to what they would have got had it been on the rotation on Radio 1.

Note as the article says in the rest of the world unlike the usa terrestrial radio does pay for the songs it plays.

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