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Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

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201–210 of 311 posts

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#201
post #12

Somewhat disingenuous to suggest swapping sim cards to avoid being tracked. This myth is one that law enforcement love. They just track phones with IMEI numbers.

Because nobody sells phone for cash, right?

I think he's referring to the artificial security based on swapping SIMs into the same phone, since both can be tracked. In fact, with appropriate metadata[1], this could poison a number of SIMs and phones if they were ever passed between handsets and/or people.

Now I'm imagining the trouble one could cause with a cell-phone recycling bin at Best Buy.

[1] Yeah, I know.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#202
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but it's a bit misleading. Although the developed areas of Hong Kong are quite literally wall-to-wall skyscrapers, the majority of Hong Kong's land is undeveloped country parks and village areas. Less than 25% of total land area of ~400 sq. mi. is actually developed.[0] The average density of those developed areas is thus incredibly high. Mong Kok for example, has a density of 340,000 / sq. mi., which is descri…

the majority of Hong Kong's land is undeveloped country parks and village areas. Less than 25% of [...] is actually developed That is nothing short of astonishing. Are the parks and undeveloped areas open to the public?

Yes. Hiking is really popular from what I understand. http://www.discoverhongkong.com/eng/see-do/great-outdoors/hi...

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#203
post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic. I don't imagine an "interest in Chinese language and culture" would have anything to do with this decision.

I'm not being entirely serious (hard to be, given the little we know) but I'm not being sarcastic, either. Some of Snowden's behaviour has been pretty odd. A variety of interpretations are possible. One is that he's a mastermind media manipulator/intelligence operator/exploiter of immigration laws/meticulous planner of a fugitive. This idea has some traction on HN and outside but I'm pretty skeptical of it. The inter…

I think the most salient point is that he needed to go to a country where

- the US did not have significant influence

- could not be strong-armed into giving him up

- would cause significant problems if he were taken without consent (or killed outright - not implausible, given the things we've seen in Pakistan)

China is a fairly logical choice - it's as far as you can run from the US in geopolitical terms. Hong Kong is just being in China without "being in China".

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#205
post #4

This is by far the most informative [edit: if speculative] article I've read on Snowden's choice of Hong Kong, which has been the most puzzling detail of the whole story. If true, it explains a lot, not just about why he chose Hong Kong but also about his subsequent interview with the press there. Can HNers who know Hong Kong shed light on how plausible it is? It's striking how one obscure blog post can be more valua…

"It's striking how one obscure blog post can be more valuable than all the media speculation on this question (that I've seen) put together." Perhaps this still qualifies as striking, but it's becoming rapidly more common, as mainstream journalism becomes ever more predictable and imitative, and individuals with expertise and actual insight, not working for news organizations, stand out as the only voices worth payin…

Exactly. Blogging allows subject matter experts to easily, cheaply publish, be widely read, and compete for eyeballs with the MSM.

There's no way most people who just went to Journalism school can compete with, say, an experienced Constitutional lawyer like Greenwald or Lessig, or hacker like PG or Spolsky, or VC like Fred Wilson etc.

But there are some things MSM can still do - good professional journalists can still round up experts and put together a composite of their views. Or they do real investigative journalism that bloggers may not have the resources for, be it Bloomberg suing the Federal Reserve under FOIA [1], or sending reporters to hotspots for first-hand reporting.

Personally I think a combination of data journalism and investigative journalism (like WaPo's Top Secret America [2] and Bloomberg's FOIA lawsuit and reporting) are their best way forward. Both require resources most individual bloggers can't provide, and both are real news, real journalism.

[1]: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-23/fed-s-once-secret-d...

[2]: http://projects.washingtonpost.com/top-secret-america/

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#206

I think Snowden didn't have a lot of choices of places to fly to from Hawaii, where he was last based. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5854562 Some of the rationales for being in Hong Kong we see attributed to interview statements by him sound like statements by a person who knows a lot less about east Asia than he thinks he knows. In the six years that I lived in east Asia, all spent there after first learning…

I want to explain why I think you are wrong in terms of it being thought out. I think it was very carefully thought out and it fit into his plans very well. Whether it was "brilliant" or not I suppose depends on what you think of the game he is playing.

If you carefully look at Snowden's actions and his statements to various press establishments, his entire strategy is based on playing one group off another. He got the Washington Post to publish a story on Prism by getting the Guardian to run one on the Verizon warrants, for example. If you look carefully he is doing the same thing regarding Hong Kong.

1. He went to Hong Kong and immediately made provocative statements about the commitment of the special administrative province to the rule of law and to political dissent. This does not mean he believes that this is the nature of things. What these statements immediately did was put the image of Hong Kong's independence at risk of Bejing comes in too forcefully.

2. He then makes a number of statements about US intelligence activity which, quite frankly, everyone would probably assume to be the case anyway (hacking Chinese internet backbones etc). This creates a US vs China dynamic and shows that he can be a danger to the US if the US does not back off.

In essence what he has done has been tailored around Hong Kong specifically. He has chosen somewhere to make a stand that fits his strategy, nothing more and nothing less.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#207
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as you don't care about the whole democracy thing.

Well, it sounds like their system is the polar opposite of the US: they can't choose their government, but it does what the people want.

That's what it appears on the outside - The Hong Kong government and Chinese government spend a lot of effort to maintain this image. Take a deeper look and you will see this isn't the case. The government has previously tried to sneak Chinese propaganda into primary schools as well as pass copyright laws that will outlaw (often political) satire and allow governments to sue on behalf of companies(!!). It was only from SOPA style opposition as well as massive street protests (measured in hundreds of thousands of people) these measures haven't passed yet.

Source: I was born in Hong Kong.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#208
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as you don't care about the whole democracy thing.

Well, it sounds like their system is the polar opposite of the US: they can't choose their government, but it does what the people want.

If China cuts pollution, respects human rights, and improves working/live for a lot of people (those are the complains I hear about)it should be a good place.

Then the only debatable thing that remains in censorship, and "absolute power corrupts absolutely".

It might not be a democracy, but if people are truly happy/content ... why would they riot ?

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#209

I live in Hong Kong too (about 20 minutes walk from the Mira where Snowden was allegedly staying), and his stated reasons of coming here due to the country's commitment to free speech and political dissent are baffling and misguided. When compared to China, Hong Kong seems free but the reality is very different. Start with the South China Morning Post, the main English language newspaper here which has been covering…

There is a lot of perceived political freedom from people outside of Hong Kong (both people in US as well as in China - why else would Chinese dissenters travel to Hong Kong to protest?). By declaring Hong Kong has political freedom, China is forced to defend that image, both domestically and internationally. I am from Hong Kong, so I know what you're talking about, but I'm currently living outside of Hong Kong, so I know what foreigners' perspective of Hong Kong is, too.

Re: Choosing Hong Kong Is a Brilliant Move by Edward Snowden

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... exactly like the US?

Minus the police state attempting to interfere into every aspect of an individuals life.

You should really indicate sarcasm if you're going to write something like that.
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