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Fertile Ground

marco.org

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Re: Fertile Ground

#201

Post by Zr40 »

jusben1369 wrote: post #89
btipling wrote: post #10

It seems hypocritical to laud fragmentation when it happens in iOS and decry it in Android. These changes seem similar to the Android differences in gingerbread and post-honeycomb. The resulting effect on developers will be the same. iOS 7 has made it apparent which bloggers are unable or unwilling to be fair in their criticism when it comes to Apple. The mismatched gradients on the new icons are beautiful to them, t…

Android would not have a real fragmentation issue if 70% of all users could easily update and did so within 12 months. Important distinction that negates this argument I think. (I am Android user for day to day phone)

But the fact is that they haven't upgraded, regardless of whether that's due to unwillingness or due to unavailability. Willingness to upgrade doesn't matter if you can't upgrade; you're still stuck on the old version.

Re: Fertile Ground

#202

Post by gurkendoktor »

pshc wrote: post #54
Samuel_Michon wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One change highlighted in the keynote presentation: instead of tapping the ‘Back’ button on the upper left corner of a UITableView layout, in iOS 7 you swipe horizontally from the left edge of the screen. There are many more changes, you can read about them in the new iOS 7 Human Interface Guidelines: http://www.slideshare.net/evgenybelyaev16/mobile-hig-2278458...

FWIW I'm using the iOS 7 beta, and this behavior is inconsistently present. It works in nested lists, but other screens e.g. the music Now Playing screen don't do it at all. Hopefully it gets OS-wide integration. But hey, it's a (really buggy!) beta.

iOS 6 added a swipe gesture on all navigation bar back buttons, and even in 6.1.4 it doesn't work in Apple's Messages out of all apps. I would be surprised if this new gesture ended up working consistently.

Re: Fertile Ground

#203

Post by mbq »

This is precisely why I think modern approach to software UX and design is crazy. Like 15 years ago, in the Windows hegemony every sane designer was heavily relying on widgets, metaphors and flow defined by the system and MS could almost flawlessly upgrade the look of the entire ecosystem with XP's Luna. And without breaking the user experience.

Now everybody is looking for some virtual perfection in a different place and the user gets an awful, inconsistent, non-customizable and anti-interoperable clutter. WHY?

Re: Fertile Ground

#204

Post by randomnamehere »

gurkendoktor wrote: post #198
ghshephard wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Combine Marco and Gruber's [1] insight - This is a major house cleaning/forest fire. Someone (Jony, et al.) has stepped back, looked at the confusion that has developed over the last 3-5 years on the iPhone, and has decided to recreate the iPhone as a conceptual platform. The introduction (and hopefully consistency) of multiple dimensions onto the phone, and a cross-system approach towards geometry, means that iOS7 w…

You are conflating design and under-the-hood changes. I have seen absolutely nobody complain about the new APIs you mention, even though they might need a few iterations to work - just like 10.7 did. That is fine, that is how Apple has always worked. Apps that were quick to embrace features of 10.7/10.8 have always gotten a solid push on the Mac App Store, for example. What annoys many users (and every developer is a…

That is true but do the new APIs offer something that would cause some revolutionary re-think and remolding of a vast majority of apps in the app store?

Sure the new APIs might offer some great features for apps and I am sure they will definitely be used in the majority of upcoming apps, but my problem (maybe not problem just curious observation or minor annoyance) is Marco taking a completely nonobjective stance on the iOS7 changes. I am completely ok with his opinion but the blind hyperbole is a bit annoying.

Re: Fertile Ground

#205

Post by ceejayoz »

dannyr wrote: post #74
ceejayoz wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vine only supports 4.0 and above & there's no uproar. It is a Top 3 app on Google Play. Are people really likely to get in an uproar over Vine? Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, sure... but Vine?

Do you know that Vine has already overtaken Instagram as the biggest social sharing on Twitter?

That doesn't mean people will riot if it isn't available on their device. If you've got Android 2.x and can't get Vine, you likely don't really care as you haven't ever used Vine.

Re: Fertile Ground

#206

Post by programminggeek »

Apple is one of the companies that can really get away with an en-masse OS transition simply because they are basically guaranteed to get 80% on board in less than 6 months simply because they control the distribution mechanism and the device hardware itself. They can plan for these transitions.

Google and to a lesser extent Microsoft screwed up and are struggling to be able to keep their users on the latest and greatest. This is such a huge advantage for Apple that it can't be overstated.

On Android at least 36% of devices are still running Gingerbread (which is 2.5 years old). Android 4.x is finally up over 50% after being out for just over a year and a half.

So, whenever Google gets around to Android 5.0, it will probably be a whole year later (or more) before that is the mainstream targetable version of Android.

As a developer, you could argue this gives you more time to get around to building against the new api's, but at the same time that's remarkably slow user uptake compared to iOS.

Re: Fertile Ground

#207

Post by smackfu »

Kiro wrote: post #185
bennyg wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SpriteKit is going to be huge. Expect about a year of getting developers ready with it, and good at it, then Apple TV may have something awesome for us.

What's SpriteKit? Sugar Cube Software's Cocoa Sprite Kit? How is it related to iOS7?

No, it's a new iOS 7 / OS X framework. Since it's an API, I think the only real discussion is in the developer docs, which are NDA'd.

Re: Fertile Ground

#208

Post by smackfu »

nadam wrote: post #200

"Most can’t afford to write two separate interfaces. (It’s a terrible idea anyway.)" Why? If the newcomers can afford to write an interface for iOS7, the established players also can. If there is money in it for newcomers, there is money in it for established players too. This article assumes that established players are dumb. They will estimate how users adopt iOS7 over time, and act accordingly.

I think it assumes that established players are conservative, not dumb. They will do the least effort necessary to make their app look good in iOS 7, at least at first.

Re: Fertile Ground

#209

Post by smackfu »

Samuel_Michon wrote: post #147

I noticed something curious on page 10 of Apple’s iOS 7 Transition Guide[1], in the section “Things Every App Should Do”: ”Examine your app for hard-coded UI values – such as sizes and positions – and replace them with those you derive dynamically from system-provided values. Use Auto Layout to help your app respond when layout changes are required.” Now, I may be reading too much into this, but the use of the word ‘…

This could also be related to iOS 7 having a system-level font size setting.

Re: Fertile Ground

#210

Post by smackfu »

cheald wrote: post #146
ghshephard wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marco's baseline assumption, if you read his full argument, is subtle. While it contains a few elements (as you've cited) of legacy support concerns - his principal thrust is not so much that you "can't afford to do so if it means cutting out your iOS6 users", rather, he primarily postulates: " I don’t think most developers of mature, non-trivial apps are going to have an easy time migrating them well to iOS 7. Even…

I really do think I get the thrust of his argument. I just don't think it holds up. Let me ask this - why wouldn't app makers just migrate their apps to an iOS7 look and let the (by the arguments in this thread) vanishingly small non-iOS7 contingent deal with something that doesn't fit the theme of their system? If 90% of your userbase is going to be running iOS7, wouldn't it make more sense to just let 10% of your u…

>Let me ask this - why wouldn't app makers just migrate their apps to an iOS7 look and let the (by the arguments in this thread) vanishingly small non-iOS7 contingent deal with something that doesn't fit the theme of their system?

It's not really about iOS 7 guidelines, it's about iOS 7 APIs, and you can't use iOS 7 APIs on iOS 6 devices. So if you still want to support iOS 6, your code has ifdefs everywhere and is a mess.

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