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US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

washingtonpost.com

201–210 of 420 posts

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#201

I've lived under surveillance before, so I feel my perspective might be somewhat appropriate. I won't comment on the specifics (uninteresting and irrelevant, had to do with where I was living). I won't even make a statement about whether it's justified in my case or in general. I'd just ask everyone here to do one thing: Watch this, then ask yourself how you feel (if it doesn't go directly to 6:40, fastforward to it,…

I've been monitored too, but did you really believe that all of the activities we do online weren't monitored...or do you just believe (like I did before I got convicted), that the gov won't bother with us.

This is just more reason why bills like CISPA need to be revised or blocked. The gov already knows what we do, but it just comes down to what they can prove in court.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#202
post #130

I think it's interesting to ask why these programs are so widely hated. These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish: the dozens of Soviet-era nuclear weapons believed to be missing, or the small amounts of dangerous pathogens that periodically vanish from research labs. These are what the government…

I hate it when people say "but our government is democratic" as an excuse to justify opposing limitations on its power. This is the same argument made by Prop 8 supporters in California, the same argument used by Oliver Wendell Holmes in justifying some of the worst civil rights abuses in early twentieth century. Fortunately, the "activist" courts of latter years have (for the most part) rejected this horrible logic (that majority has a right to put any of its ideas into law, irrespective of the rights of others).

Yes, our government is democratic: it is not, however, an absolute majoritarian government where any action that majority favours can and will be put into decree and acted upon. Democracy means "rule of the people", not "absolute rule by a simple majority/plurality".

Yes, we have elections, but we also have bi-cameral legislature, separation of powers, and a constitutions. We hold elections and let majority (at times a simple majority, in other cases -- like amending the constitution -- a supermajority) of our elected representatives decide which laws will pass. We don't do so because of an a priori commitment to majority, we do so because we haven't found other forms of government that respect civil liberties and other human rights to the same extent that a representative democracy would.

In other words, elected government is the means to an end (a society where the strongest individuals or the biggest gangs cannot violate others' rights to life, liberty, and property without repercussions), not an end in it of itself.

I realize this isn't an invalidation of your points: while I disagree with you (yes, intelligence agencies should be allowed to exist; no, they can not be allowed to snoop -- even accidentally -- on US citizens or permanent residents without due process), your point is salient and doesn't require making such a dangerous argument ("as long as our government is a functional democracy, we shouldn't worry about governments' intrusion on our rights to x" where x in this case is "privacy").

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#203

I am convicted hacker that got caught through the patriot act (which was to catch terrorists)[0]. The biggest two lessons I learned from what I did was..1) if I can't tell someone what I'm doing it's probably wrong (I was 19 when I hacked Google, Etrade, and Schwab and thought it was ok)...and 2) if I have nothing to hide, then I shouldn't care to use the internet. All this is really is confirmation more than a disco…

The "I have nothing to hide" meme needs to die with a stake through the heart, garlic wrapped around it's neck, and with a gallon of holy water poured over it.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As many have stated, the problem is with inevitable abuse of power. It may or may not be happening now, but it will. Recent IRS disclosure that they targeted Tea Party-linked organizations for audits is one example. I doubt it was deliberately ordered by the administration, but someone, somewhere thought it was a good idea. Search queries alone will probably tell you which way a person is leaning in an election. That…

Think it through! Every politician, not just the conservative ones, was happy when somebody finally noticed this story. IRS agents have done whatever they wanted to private citizens, with no consequences, for decades. Then they questioned (they didn't fine, prosecute, garnish, imprison, or confiscate) political groups that claimed to be educational groups, and as a result the agents got censured, fired, and prosecute…

"Every politician, not just the conservative ones"

Are there any other politicians in power at the federal level these days?

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#205
post #130

I think it's interesting to ask why these programs are so widely hated. These are national security assets: evidence gathered here will never be used in a drug case, or a tax evasion case. Why not? These tools exist for the bigger fish: the dozens of Soviet-era nuclear weapons believed to be missing, or the small amounts of dangerous pathogens that periodically vanish from research labs. These are what the government…

But the incentives the intelligence apparatus have to not use any data collected here against anyone for reasons less than "real" terrorism are strong enough

How do you know this?

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#207
post #13

I just emailed Tim Cook that imho iCloud is dead. He is welcome to add options to use my own cloud storage while using clientside encryption, and I might reconsider. You're welcome to send him your opinion as well. It's tcook@youknowntherest.

Be serious. This is Apple. How on earth does clientside encryption fit into easy-to-use? Lost your password? Lost your files. That's entirely against the scenario Apple wants to sell. Clientside crypto will only possibly be mass-adopted when there's some easy system for common folks to store their keys.

They build that feature into their desktop OS (FileVault), I don't see why it couldn't be an option for their sync service. It shouldn't be the default, but it should absolutely be an option.

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#208
post #13

I just emailed Tim Cook that imho iCloud is dead. He is welcome to add options to use my own cloud storage while using clientside encryption, and I might reconsider. You're welcome to send him your opinion as well. It's tcook@youknowntherest.

Be serious. This is Apple. How on earth does clientside encryption fit into easy-to-use? Lost your password? Lost your files. That's entirely against the scenario Apple wants to sell. Clientside crypto will only possibly be mass-adopted when there's some easy system for common folks to store their keys.

[deleted]

Re: US intelligence mining data from 9 US Internet companies in broad secret program

#209
post #171

I've lived under surveillance before, so I feel my perspective might be somewhat appropriate. I won't comment on the specifics (uninteresting and irrelevant, had to do with where I was living). I won't even make a statement about whether it's justified in my case or in general. I'd just ask everyone here to do one thing: Watch this, then ask yourself how you feel (if it doesn't go directly to 6:40, fastforward to it,…

And my guess is the following video is an example of why the NYT is now saying that Obama no longer has any credibility on this issue: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6fnfVJzZT4

I would have voted for that guy (except for "FISA works!", but enh). I'd even be ok with ditching the 22nd if we could get that guy as President. I wonder what happened -- was it all a cynical ploy, or was there some secret (real or fake) information about how without wholesale monitoring we'd all instantly be destroyed, or what.
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