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Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

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Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#201

Post by VMG »

bubbleRefuge wrote: post #182
VMG wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The solution is simple. You simply give every adult citizen enough money every year to insure that they can afford food, shelter, and other basic needs. Give it to everyone, rich or poor, same amount. BAM! You left out the part where the money comes from. Your idea is fine and dandy, but I doubt you are currently implementing it yourself by spending your own money. The idea depends on everybody being forced to pay.…

You need to educate yourself on the monetary system. Taxes do not necessarily fund government at the local level. Non-convertable floating fx monetary regimes are self-funding. Its kind of like saying where does the score-keeper at the basketball game get points to put on the score board ? Can he run out ?

Well great, if money is nothing more than game points, let's give everybody 10^10 points and call it a day!

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#202

Post by dominostars »

onemorepassword wrote: post #183
tokenadult wrote: post #162

Places with good weather have huge visible homeless populations. (I have traveled all over the United States, and have been to all fifty states. AFTER EDIT: I have been in, and have lived in, gritty "skid row" neighborhoods of large United States cities, and have lived in Los Angeles.) Places with lousy weather, like the place where I grew up and now live, certainly have people who are "homeless" in the sense of not…

There is no Europe. I can only speak for my country, the Netherlands, and there is no such thing as people not having the personal funds to buy or rent housing. That's why we have minimum wages, social security, rent subsidies and regulated rent. The homeless here are people mostly people with mental health issues that reject or don't respond to treatment. It's by far not a perfect utopian system, but to have people…

> The homeless here are people mostly people with mental health issues that reject or don't respond to treatment.

I would speculate that this is true for San Francisco, especially in the downtown (tenderloin) area.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#203

Post by briholt »

VMG wrote: post #72
briholt wrote: post #33

The same is true for Los Angeles. I've been in an office building while people were discussing six-figure sums like they were nothing, when outside in the alley below there were literally homeless people in a knife fight over a candy bar.

Do you think they fought because they would starve to death otherwise or because they had mental issues?

Mental issues for sure. There are a few places for the homeless to get food in that area, so it'd be unlikely for a non-mentally-ill person to starve.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#204

Post by roguecoder »

reinhardt wrote: post #142
downandout wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please find one and post about it here. I would love to meet this mythical person and take a video of them rejecting the offer of a place to live.

> the offer of a place to live. By "offer", do you mean for free? Well, duh. What the GP most likely meant is that some people prefer to be homeless rather than having to get and hold down a job to afford a place to live.

I've watched several friends spend two or three years doing nothing but hunt for a job, and they were lucky enough to have friends with couches to crash on, enough money for interview clothes and a computer to access job ads on. You act like that's a trivial step: it's not.

Besides the challenge of actually finding a job, a minimum wage job won't cover rent in SF and certainly not with money left over for things like food, transportation or phone service. Have you seen the installation art piece about the minimum wage? It's a box with a crank on it that spits out a penny every 4.97 seconds: http://disinfo.com/2012/12/the-mininum-wage-machine/ That's what working is like to most people, except often more dangerous and demeaning.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#205

Post by [deleted] »

tokenadult wrote: post #162

Places with good weather have huge visible homeless populations. (I have traveled all over the United States, and have been to all fifty states. AFTER EDIT: I have been in, and have lived in, gritty "skid row" neighborhoods of large United States cities, and have lived in Los Angeles.) Places with lousy weather, like the place where I grew up and now live, certainly have people who are "homeless" in the sense of not…

[deleted]

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#206

Post by dusklight »

nisa wrote: post #102
downandout wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI whomever is downvoting this - you can downvote it all you want. It doesn't make it any less true. I'll take the hit on my karma points on the off chance it makes someone think, even for a second, about not perpetrating the selfish act of cruelty that is bringing a child into an impoverished existence.

See you on the other side of this discussion if you loose your wealth and your job for whatever reasons. You'll enjoy beeing jugded by your own words. Empathy and social justice are crucial for any society that wants to be respected. You are proposing barbary. Social Darwinism.

How is he being barbaric by proposing that prospective parents should reconsider having children if they don't think their children will be able to have a happy life?

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#207

Post by peterhunt »

Anyone who's been around the US knows that San Francisco has one of the most visible homeless populations in the country.

It's interesting to note that SF also has perhaps the strongest "social safety net" programs in the country.

I don't understand how the author then makes the jump to "we need more social safety net programs."

Maybe we should just run them effectively.

Also the characterization of the social lives of SV employees is just plain wrong, but that's a tangential point.

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#208

Post by rythie »

tokenadult wrote: post #162

Places with good weather have huge visible homeless populations. (I have traveled all over the United States, and have been to all fifty states. AFTER EDIT: I have been in, and have lived in, gritty "skid row" neighborhoods of large United States cities, and have lived in Los Angeles.) Places with lousy weather, like the place where I grew up and now live, certainly have people who are "homeless" in the sense of not…

Europe isn't all the same.

In the U.K. you get various benefits if you are unemployed and that includes accommodation normally - though there is a waiting list (and people with children are top of the list) and job seekers allowance.

Health is free (NHS) for everyone it doesn't matter if you have a job are rich/poor, have a job etc.

There are some people who are homeless - though it's not particularly common due to government support.

[However, I don't claim to be an expert on benefits system here, as I've never used them - fortunately]

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#209

Post by DanBC »

tokenadult wrote: post #181
tobinfricke wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having moved from the U.S. to northern Germany, I have to say: the difference is shocking. Here, mentally unstable homeless people are not a daily sight on the city streets. In fact, I have seen only one San Francisco-style lunatic: and he was, indeed, raving in English. Saying that "United States social policy is [not] a model for anywhere" must be an understatement. I would ask: what social policy? Any aid from the…

Having moved from the U.S. to northern Germany I'd really love to learn about what is actually done in Europe. Where is a "mentally unstable" person to be found in Germany? If a "San Francisco-style lunatic" (like the one you saw in public in Germany) is encountered out in public in Germany, where is he put? P.S. I have adequate reading knowledge of German to be able to read German-language links about what is done f…

England: If you're a danger to yourself or to other people there are various powers to detain you under section of the Mental Health Act.

If you're in public a police officer will use a section 136 - that's to take you to a place of safety and have you assessed by doctors.

If you're in a hospital nurses and doctors have powers to detain you for short times for you to be assessed.

If you're in your home your "nearest relative" (that person is defined in law) can ask the community mental health to consider assessing you. They must consider your request, but they don't have to do an assessment.

Or you can ask for an assessment. Or you could ask for a visit from your crisis[1] team, and they'll suggest an assessment.

In general it is much better to be an informal patient (someone who goes into hospital voluntarily) rather than someone detained under section.

In theory there should be a bunch of checks and measures. But, well, it's an imperfect world.

If you are ever detained you should ask for the Code of Practice (they have to have a copy available for patients. They have to help you read it if you're having trouble reading) and for an advocate. (They must make advocacy available for you.) make a record of everything that is said to you.

(http://www.mentalhealthlaw.co.uk/Mental_Health_Act_1983_Code...)

(http://www.mind.org.uk/mental_health_a-z/8052_mental_health_...)

Re: Come here and work on hard problems – except the ones on our doorstep

#210

Post by greghinch »

ricardobeat wrote: post #199
jf22 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"third-world country conditions" No. Even a porta potty cleaned infrequently is more sanitary than the conditions in the third world. There won't be a cholera outbreak. Food is available and nobody is going to starve to death. Heck, a simple clean water fountain in some third world countries can improve the lives of an entire village. Even in the most horrible cities in america there are dozens of sources of free wat…

The term Third World arose during the Cold War to define countries that remained non-aligned with either NATO, or the Communist Bloc. That's more than half of the world, while what you're describing applies mostly to sub-saharan Africa.

> while what you're describing applies mostly to sub-saharan Africa

And many parts of China, India, Western Asia, Southeast Asia, Central America, and parts of South America...

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