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Just Use Sublime Text

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Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#201

Post by Supermighty »

ebbv wrote: post #25

Am I the only person in the world who: a) Never thought vim was that hard to learn (and I first learned it when I was a teenager and nobody helped me. I switched when someone on a MUD made fun of me for using pico.) and b) Thinks vanilla vim works just fine. Seriously my vimrc is like 10 lines long and I don't even have it on every server I work on. I don't bother with any plugins. I don't need vim integrated with gi…

You're not crazy, you're spot on. As long as a new user understand vim insert and command mode (and how to :w) then they should be as productive as if they were using any other editor.

When I started learning vim all I knew were the command modes and how to move around using hjkl. Slowly over time I added more commands.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#202

Post by yongcat »

If this is an argument about the text editing software/GUI, I respect everyone's opinion, but vim keyboard shortcuts is one of the best things I learned as a programmer.

I use vim when I ssh, have vintage enabled in ST2, and my Eclipse has Vrapper for the shortcuts. Too bad these shortcut plugins don't have visual blocks though. anyways, hjkl is very addictive.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#203

Post by davesims »

I've been meaning to learn vim for years now. I started a month ago knowing basically how to fudge my way around with arrow keys and save with :w, and that's it. A couple of peepcode screencasts, a bit of daily 5 minute practice on shortcutfoo.com, and a month of pretty disciplined day-to-day coding later and I'm basically back to where I was on TextMate. I'm even using a tmux/vim setup for most of my Android coding, occasionally tabbing back into IntelliJ IDEA if I have to do any heavy refactoring, and even then I have a vim plugin going there.

Is it better? I dunno, hard to say. I like it. I like the tmux-vim combination and it's been a good challenge that's kept my brain engaged.

Now, I have a ton to learn, and that's awesome. But I'm at the point where I'm really comfortable making all of my changes in a vim context, without constant finger stuttering and 3 second pauses like I was doing 3 weeks ago. And it certainly didn't take me 2 years. That's nuts. Maybe 5 years ago before there were so many screencasts, tutorials and practice sites, it may have taken that long. But even then I think any disciplined coder could get up to a moderate proficiency with some daily practice, in a few weeks or months, not years.

This is an old warhorse of a debate that hardly seems worthy of HN, nevertheless here is the conventional wisdom restated: vim vs. idea vs. TM/ST is a question of taste and personal developer happiness, not proven productivity. I know great coders who swear by (EMacs/Vim/IntelliJ/Eclipse/SublimeText) to the exclusion of all others. None of it matters. Was it Knuth who said, "all editor wars lead to madness and early optimization", or something to that effect?

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#205

Post by super_mario »

I love it when self proclaimed vim expert users talk about hjkl as some pinnacle of vim enlightenment. And what's with the 45 plugins? People who do that usually don't know how to use UNIX either. VIM is a text editor, it's not meant to replace the shell. Yes Command+T is useful, but it's not essential. And trying to shoe horn VIM into some other editor's paradigms (multiple cursors?? why, vim has better ways to achieve the same thing) is going to be frustrating.

Each and every time in posts like these I get the impression the person is CPU bound rather than I/O bound.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#206

Post by gnuvince »

msutherl wrote: post #31
jcoder wrote: post #19

"The Editor You Need To Read (At Least) Two Books On To Use Well" Read :help. I haven't read any books on Vim so I'm not sure if there are any good ones, but you most definitely do not "need" to read one. "The point of a mouse is to make arbitrary on screen jumps efficient, and it’s very good at doing that. Don’t you ever think you can beat a mouse. Only in very few edge cases will it even matter." That's kind of rid…

As somebody who recently switched from Vim to SublimeText, I agree and disagree with much in the article, but the point about the mouse is interesting. For years I believed that eschewing the mouse was speeding me up. But I recently had the pleasure of working with a fine gentleman, and a SublimeText user, who is an absolute fiend with the mouse. He has considerably more development experience than I, so it is not an…

I believe it depends on the kind of movement you need to do. If you need to go to an arbitrary point in the screen, I agree. However, if you are on a line and want to go to the end of the line, is it not easier to press the `End` key (or C-e for Emacs users, $ for Vim users) than take the mouse and aim it at the end of the current line? Depending on the task at hand, using the keyboard may or may not be faster.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#207

Post by sc0rb »

For Java Enterprise / Spring development (or even some of the more lightweight stuff), this editor does not match up to what Eclipse offer.

I want / need to see when dependencies in the code are not resolve at dev time, not compile time. I need to see the call hierarchy on various methods too. Sublime doesn't come close.

If you're using a more lightweight stack where you don't care about errors until you can see them in your browser then maybe this tool is for you (looking at you PHP and Javascript) but for any SERIOUS Java work Sublime is not ready.

It is a beautiful tool though. I wish there were something like this for SERIOUS Java devs.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#208

Post by crucialfelix »

msutherl wrote: post #31
jcoder wrote: post #19

"The Editor You Need To Read (At Least) Two Books On To Use Well" Read :help. I haven't read any books on Vim so I'm not sure if there are any good ones, but you most definitely do not "need" to read one. "The point of a mouse is to make arbitrary on screen jumps efficient, and it’s very good at doing that. Don’t you ever think you can beat a mouse. Only in very few edge cases will it even matter." That's kind of rid…

As somebody who recently switched from Vim to SublimeText, I agree and disagree with much in the article, but the point about the mouse is interesting. For years I believed that eschewing the mouse was speeding me up. But I recently had the pleasure of working with a fine gentleman, and a SublimeText user, who is an absolute fiend with the mouse. He has considerably more development experience than I, so it is not an…

The mouse and scroll wheel work just fine in my VIM in the terminal. I use whichever one is closest at hand (literally).

In any case we should soon have eyeball tracking to move around. and/or leap motion. also when can I simply shout at the screen and get it to do my bidding?

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#209

Post by irahul »

ozataman wrote: post #109
irahul wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Emacs can be pretty pretty--perhaps not actively pretty, but very elegant in a minimalist sort of way. I'm pretty happy with how mine looks[1], for example. Obligatory vim can be pretty too, and I am happy with how mine looks. http://i.imgur.com/ZC2xDxH.png On a related note, I like how my terminal vim looks better than how the GUI looks. I don't use emacs much, but same goes for emacs.

What's your theme, BTW? I also like your custom status bar shape.

> What's your theme, BTW? I also like your custom status bar shape.

My screenshot doesn't have custom status bar shapes. GP does. Anyway, for that, you need powerline(available for both vim and emacs).

My color theme is ir_black https://github.com/wgibbs/vim-irblack If you are using it in terminal, you also need to set up ir_black theme for the terminal.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#210

Post by T-zex »

ebbv wrote: post #25

Am I the only person in the world who: a) Never thought vim was that hard to learn (and I first learned it when I was a teenager and nobody helped me. I switched when someone on a MUD made fun of me for using pico.) and b) Thinks vanilla vim works just fine. Seriously my vimrc is like 10 lines long and I don't even have it on every server I work on. I don't bother with any plugins. I don't need vim integrated with gi…

I have started using vim just a couple of years ago, much later than I've started coding and got introduced to vim. Initially I thought that vim is for hipster nerds who would rather use something awkward and completely ignore some useful mainstream stuff like arrow keys and a mouse.

Later I've developed a wrist pain and got interested in ergonomics. One thing I've noticed was how badly the arrow keys are positioned and how "unhealthy" it is to use a mouse with a right hand (numpad shifts the position of a mouse too far right). And then I started thinking about minimising use of a mouse and arrow keys. This led to the rediscovering of vim.

It was surprisingly easy to learn and later surprisingly hard to use other editors.

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