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Re: undefined

#201

Post by time_management »

sho wrote: post #196
time_management wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

www.helenfisher.com/downloads/articles/17brokeheart.pdf Pwn'd.

From the study you linked: "Even when romantic love is not linked with reproduction, this passion can provide a teen or young adult with some exceptional personal and social benefits, including exhilarating joy, increased energy and optimism, feelings of intimacy, self-esteem, inclusion in health-giving social groups, exercise, social and personal support, and crucial practice in the skills of building a long-term pa…

"Even when romantic love is not linked with reproduction, this passion can provide a teen or young adult with some exceptional personal and social benefits, including exhilarating joy, increased energy and optimism, feelings of intimacy, self-esteem, inclusion in health-giving social groups, exercise, social and personal support, and crucial practice in the skills of building a long-term partnership—skills they will need to make the most important social contract of their reproductive lives." (Emphasis mine.)

You missed that inconvenient detail, didn't you? Romantic love and casual sex are mutually exclusive. (I'm railing against casual sex, not all premarital sex; if the latter, I'd be a hypocrite.)

Women may be particularly vulnerable to falling in love with a casual sex partner because seminal fluid also contains dopamine and tyrosine, a building block of dopamine (Burch & Gallup, in press). Although these chemicals do not pass across the blood-brain barrier, elevated activities of dopamine and tyrosine may affect brain physiology through other complex interactions. In fact, people report that sex can lead to romantic love. The natives of rural Nepal even use an off-color term for this phenomenon, saying "Naso pasyo, maya basyo," or "the penis entered and love arrived" (Ahearn, 1998).

Once again, this biological link between lust and romantic love is not direct or simple. Athletes who inject synthetic androgens to build muscle do not fall in love. When middle-aged men and women inject androgens or apply testosterone cream to stimulate their sex drive, their sexual thoughts and fantasies increase (Sherwin & Gelfand, 1987; Sherwin, Gelfand, & Brender, 1985). But neither do these individuals become enamored.

Nevertheless, the chemical interactions between testosterone and dopamine and the chemical changes that accompany sexual arousal suggest that those who engage in sexual intercourse are more likely to fall in love; their threshold for this passion is lowered. And women who engage in sex without a condom may be even more susceptible to romantic passion. Hence teens and young adults who pursue "casual sex" with a friend or stranger can become enamored with their sexual partner even when they have no intention of beginning a romance.

Lust Can Trigger Attachment

Sexual activity can also trigger the brain system for attachment. In humans, orgasm elevates the activity of oxytocin and vasopressin (Carmichael et al., 1987; Young et al., 1998); and these neuropeptides are associated with attachment in people and other animals (Wang, Ferris, & DeVries, 1994; Williams et al., 1994" Young et al., 1998). ' B Hence, teenagers who engage in casual sex can trigger the brain system for attachment (as well as that for romantic love), leading to complex, unanticipated emotional entanglements with psychologically and socially unsuitable mating partners." (Emphasis mine.)

In other words, casual sex hacks the brain system, by aping at least some of the biochemical signature of romantic love. Of course, in most cases, it's not romantic love but a shallow infatuated attachment. In any case, it's not good for you.

Re: undefined

#202

Post by DanielBMarkham »

time_management wrote: post #195
sho wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're a disgrace to your religion.

You have no idea what my religious beliefs are, douchebag. My objection to this sort of behavior isn't religious. It's that I value the preservation of civilization, and I have a real problem with a bunch of self-absorbed thugs who are trying to fuck it all up. It took thousands of years to get to a society even approaching one where men and women could relate on loving and mutually respectful terms, and the casual s…

"It took thousands of years to get to a society even approaching one where men and women could relate on loving and mutually respectful terms, and the casual sexers want to throw all this progress away within one generation."

Dude.

They were saying that in the 60s -- 40 years ago when I was three.

And they were saying it in the roaring twenties when my grandma was twelve.

Hell they were saying it in the 1880s. The Victorians were convinced that the end of arranged marriages and free courting meant chaos and destruction was upon us all.

Just when is this easy-sex-kills-civilization event supposed to happen? I'm only planning on living another couple hundred years or so.

Re: undefined

#203

Post by xiaoma »

ahoyhere wrote: post #92
time_management wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but some issues are more important than others, and moral character is a big one. A person's sexual history is evidence of that person's character (or lack thereof). It's the one area of life where people are easily pushed to do awful things to themselves and each other. Seriously, do you want to marry someone who might cheat because your dick is not as wide as that of a hookup who happened to show up at the…

> Seriously, do you want to marry someone who might cheat because your dick is not as wide as that of a hookup who happened to show up at the college reunion? Why are you so afraid of women?

>Why are you so afraid of women?

Women have the power to hurt him.

In this day and age, outright threats to our survival are rare unless we choose to seek them out. Food, shelter, and other basic necessities are easily within the grasp of nearly the entire population. Desirable sexual partners are not. Due to our nature, the majority of men and women cannot get the partner they want most of the time.

The pain of being betrayed or discarded by that one you thought you had found is considerable. Not only that, but it's visceral. It's hard-wired into our physiology that that will hurt in a way few other things can.

Re: undefined

#204

Post by sho »

time_management wrote: post #201
sho wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the study you linked: "Even when romantic love is not linked with reproduction, this passion can provide a teen or young adult with some exceptional personal and social benefits, including exhilarating joy, increased energy and optimism, feelings of intimacy, self-esteem, inclusion in health-giving social groups, exercise, social and personal support, and crucial practice in the skills of building a long-term pa…

"Even when romantic love is not linked with reproduction, this passion can provide a teen or young adult with some exceptional personal and social benefits, including exhilarating joy, increased energy and optimism, feelings of intimacy, self-esteem, inclusion in health-giving social groups, exercise, social and personal support, and crucial practice in the skills of building a long-term partnership—skills they will…

"if the latter, I'd be a hypocrite"

Funny, I could have sworn otherwise.

"Romantic love and casual sex are mutually exclusive."

You speak for yourself and no-one else. Most women would consider being boned by James Bond for one night only to be a highly romantic proposition.

I'm not James Bond but I do my best. I've never had any complaints. At least I have some experience in such things. You are just making shit up to support your wacky beliefs.

Re: undefined

#205

Post by blhack »

sho wrote: post #43
adammarkey wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love is like a TCP connection. Startup and teardown are expensive, but once you're past that, you're in the butter-zone.

So does that make casual sex UDP?

Token Ring.

Re: undefined

#206

Post by endtime »

yters wrote: post #138
endtime wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Err, I don't think so. What I quoted said "People who are X do not do Y". The contrapositive of that is "People who do Y are not X". And I disagree, because I know people who do Y and are X.

You are conflating quantifiers here. "Pretty much universally" is not a universal quantifier, it implies "there exists people who do Y who are X." So, your example of "there exists people who do Y who are X" doesn't contradict the original statement. time_management says "in my experience" so unless you can produce a universal quantifier for your claim, or do some sort of analysis to define cardinality, you can't inv…

"Pretty much universally" is not a universal quantifier

Wait, what? I'd say it pretty much is a universal quantifier.

Re: undefined

#208

Post by likpok »

patrickg-zill wrote: post #104
time_management wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the US, so finding the "right kind" of woman is difficult. 85 percent (or more) of them are too selfish to have any long-term potential. The saying comes to mind about how, in the US, it's very easy to find a great job and very hard to find a decent woman, as opposed to the other way around in most of the world. If I decide that getting married and having kids is a serious priority of mine, I'm probably goi…

The good ones do often go early, because they don't have the "issues" to begin with or have parental help to work them out. As I am married to someone not originally from the USA I would emphasize that there are societal issues you will have to deal with, but they can be worked around. Living overseas is actually a great idea in any case.

No. The good ones hold out for better men. There was a HN post about it a while ago.

Re: undefined

#209

Post by yters »

likpok wrote: post #179
yters wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's probably some reason based on objective reality that this has been the predominant belief in most cultures in most times. If you disagree, name such a belief that does not correspond to objective reality.

There was a commonly held belief that women were property. This was held throughout large parts of the Western world, throughout history (Indeed, I have not heard of any sort of egalitarian society in the past, perhaps barring some special cases).

While that belief is bad, why do you think there wasn't a reason for it?

Re: undefined

#210

Post by yters »

endtime wrote: post #206
yters wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are conflating quantifiers here. "Pretty much universally" is not a universal quantifier, it implies "there exists people who do Y who are X." So, your example of "there exists people who do Y who are X" doesn't contradict the original statement. time_management says "in my experience" so unless you can produce a universal quantifier for your claim, or do some sort of analysis to define cardinality, you can't inv…

"Pretty much universally" is not a universal quantifier Wait, what? I'd say it pretty much is a universal quantifier.

A universal quantifier is absolute. Actually, it's a pedantic point.

The better point for tm to claim is most chaste women are moral, whereas the same cannot be said for unchaste women. So, to guarantee a better chance of developing a relationship with a moral woman (i.e. more likely to not commit adultery and be temperate), we men should be chaste and look for chaste women.

This is probably what he intended anyways, since it makes more sense.

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