Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter • Hacker News Board

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#201

Post by jasonlotito » Tue, Mar 05, 2013, 6:14 PM UTC

nawitus wrote: post #186

jasonlotito wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the context of the comment, anti-science was correctly used. There was nothing scientific about it. > Is debate allowed about in science anymore? Of the type we are discussing? It's never been allowed. It's always been discouraged. You can see similar types of debates when people talk about teaching the controversy. In fact, science is not about debate. It's about presenting facts in support of an argument. Merely…

"In fact, science is not about debate. It's about presenting facts in support of an argument. Merely arguing is pointless." What science "is" is a subjective opinion, and there are many different claims what science really is. In my opinion debate is important to science. In addition, 'presenting facts in support of an argument' is debating in my opinion.

Pedantic comments like this are worthless. You know what I meant. And rather than discuss that meaning, you decided to take a trip on anal train.

Anyways, I'm not about to explain why allowing holocaust denialists equal time is a silly proposition.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#202

Post by catshirt » Tue, Mar 05, 2013, 6:28 PM UTC

disbelief wrote: post #171

catshirt wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is to my point. who then is the arbiter of abuse? OP? x pills is fine, y pills is fine, z pills makes you a "complete moron".

Well, when your life starts to fall apart at the seams and you start exhibiting any one of the behaviours mentioned in OP's article, that's a pretty good indicator you've reached "complete moron" status. However I think you're over simplifying the question. Not everyone has the same response to drugs/substances. Some people can do what systematical does without any long term side effects because they simply have the…

i'm getting abstract here but i think the point i am trying to make is that addiction in any capacity is not enough to qualify someone as a "complete moron".

i considered that this might be overly semantic. but if not definitively incorrect, it is at the very least profoundly tactless.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#203

Post by wahnfrieden » Tue, Mar 05, 2013, 6:48 PM UTC

systematical wrote: post #195

wahnfrieden wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much are you taking at once that you space it by several months?

1-2 pills at 10mg each. Try and just do one. Usually able to get a solid 8-12 hours of straight work out of them. It's hell on my back and I don't like the side-effects so thats why I limit it like that only taking them when I feel my workload necessitates it.

IR?

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#204

Post by michaelochurch » Tue, Mar 05, 2013, 8:29 PM UTC

Tyrannosaurs wrote: post #183

etrain wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a friend whose grandfather was a hot shot lawyer at one of the largest international firms of his day in the 60s/70s/80s. She told me that he was a speed addict for close to 20 years. Long story short he got into a situation where he had to quit cold turkey and did, successfully. Substance abuse to get ahead is nothing new. Drugs are not as new as we pretend they are, and it's been common practice to abuse them…

I've worked for a couple of the bigger law firms in the UK and I've never come across drug use (of this type). Drugs may enable and perpetuate this behaviour today, at least in some countries, but I don't think there's much of a case that they caused it. At least if they did it arose in places like the UK without that assistance. From my experience the root is far simpler - greed. They dangle the possibility of partn…

They dangle the possibility of partnership with all it's attendant wealth and status in front of the bright young things and watch them scrap it out and burn out.

It used to be that about 5% didn't make partner. It was like getting fired-- in the 1970s, when that itself was rare. It was harder to get an associate position, but once you were in, you were solid. Also, work hours were not at the extreme that they are now.

Now, instead of 5% not making partner, it's about 5% who make partner.

That's because some really evil, greedy fucks got in charge and realized they could replace partnerships with overworked, churn-and-burn associates.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#205

Post by michaelochurch » Tue, Mar 05, 2013, 8:31 PM UTC

nikatwork wrote: post #79

michaelochurch wrote: post #34

This made me sick. I don't know what's worst: the author's self-absorption, the victimization tone, or the fact that her colleagues had to do similar unhealthy shit in order to compete with her. It stinks the whole way. Using drugs to gain an unfair advantage over other people at work has unhealthy emotional side effects? Am I to be surprised by this?

> the fact that her colleagues had to do similar unhealthy shit in order to compete with her You are asserting that the law firm's long working hours were caused by her med use. Do you think you might have that backwards? > the author's self-absorption, the victimization tone She had a substance abuse problem. She's warning others that it's a slippery slope. Show some compassion.

You are asserting that the law firm's long working hours were caused by her med use.

Her drug abuse, obviously not. Drug abuse by young professionals? Yes.

The cocaine boom and the increase in law firm hours (from about 40 to about 60) both happened at the same time: the 1980s.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#206

Post by runlevel1 » Tue, Mar 05, 2013, 8:33 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #81

pchivers wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't like the article either. The whole thing struck me as melodramatic and narcissistic. Perhaps there are intelligent commentaries to be written about this culture's abuse of Adderall, but this is not one of them.

> The whole thing struck me as melodramatic and narcissistic. She's a young aspiring writer living in New York City, as well as a UCLA grad... shouldn't be a surprise...

That's a bit ad hominem, no?

Before posting this I took a look at your comment history to make sure I wasn't feeding a troll. Instead, I found tons of quality contributions. You're better than this, my fellow HN'er.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#207

Post by thelogos » Tue, Mar 05, 2013, 9:22 PM UTC

n3rdy wrote: post #170

thelogos wrote: post #161

A large part of the blame lays on her. IMO adderall's mechanism is much more severe on neurons than methylphenidate. It's very well proven that amphetamine/methamphetamine increases the level of free dopamine in the cytosol which are prone to auto-oxidation to quinones. This wreaks all sort of havoc over the long-term. Methylphenidate(ritalin) and its stereoisomer stay cleanly outside the presynaptic neurons and only…

> A large part of the blame lays on her. I'd say all the blame lays on her. When you know your gaming a system by either buying a drug from a dealer, using a crooked doctor to write your prescriptions, taking more than your prescribed dosage, and not reading the warning label on the bottle every time you take a dose out of it, its hard to believe that you didn't understand the consequences of what you were doing. I'm…

Check out Dr.Sulzer's research. A lot of these studies are very hard to understand without some organic chem and biochem background.

Reading the abstract is simply not enough feel the significance of these research.

The other problem is access to these articles through journal subscription is quite expensive.

I always figure that methamphetamine does some long-term damage, but when they found melanin accumulation in the neurons by examining brain slices, it was pretty alarming.

The mechanism of action between amphetamine and methamphetamine is too similar to rule out the possibility of long-term damage.

It just doesn't make sense to take adderall when dexmethylphenidate (focalin) gives most of the benefit without ritalin's side effects.

In the long-term, I'm still quite leery of dexmethylphenidate, particularly how it acts as a releaser at high concentration.

I haven't come across any papers that describe its mechanism of action as a releasing agent.

This is another reason why I only use it to study and practice piano. As long as you're learning, it's easy to justify that the benefit outweigh the cost.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#208

Post by throwaway54-762 » Tue, Mar 05, 2013, 9:24 PM UTC

simonster wrote: post #159

throwaway54-762 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However small the chemical difference, there is an enormous practical difference. Meth can produce an intense high. Adderall, not so much. This just isn't true. Adderall is several amphetamines and the drug definitely produces a high. The medical application of the drug is this rush of dopamine and seratonin allows users to focus and ignore distractions. The high is an amphetamine high, much like meth, actually. Yo…

This just isn't true. Adderall is several amphetamines and the drug definitely produces a high. The medical application of the drug is this rush of dopamine and seratonin allows users to focus and ignore distractions. There's no rush of serotonin. Amphetamines primarily affect the norepinephrine and dopamine transporters. They can affect serotonin transporters, but only in very high doses. (MDMA, or "pure" Ecstasy, a…

Thanks for going into more depth here. You understand it much more thoroughly than me =).

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#209

Post by lsc » Tue, Mar 05, 2013, 10:06 PM UTC

intended wrote: post #169

lsc wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

meh, I am in a similar situation, and have mixed feelings. My parents were for it, but I was against it (because of the values my parents instilled in me... I'm pretty shocked they thought it was acceptable... but I think they were really scared that I was going to be a failure. I mean, I was a failure, at school.) Anyhow, I'm only the second person in my extended family to not have gone to college. If I performed in…

Well by your own admission and logic its essentially a fluke that things worked out for you. If you were born 2-3 years later you would have been writing a thoroughly different comment. As a matter of fact, there is very likely someone who made a similar choice like you, only his time line was shifted forward a few years. His outcomes would be remarkably worse than yours. Not only would he have never gone to college,…

>As a matter of fact, there is very likely someone who made a similar choice like you, only his time line was shifted forward a few years.

Oh yeah, that guy worked for me for a short period of time. He got a better job (first at hostgator, then at some fairly well-known generic-sounding consulting house) very shortly afterwards. He mostly just needed /something/ to put on the resume so people didn't give him shit about the empty years.

But yea, random chance is absolutely huge, and I got lucky.

>His outcomes would be remarkably worse than yours. Not only would he have never gone to college, he would also have an non-competitive start in a tough environment.

College isn't one of those 'once in a lifetime' chances; I mean, unless you have parents or something that are willing to pay for it out of high school but not willing to pay for it a few years later, you /can/ go back a few years later. I think it's pretty destructive that the choice is presented to 17 year olds as "go to college now, or suffer forever because you did not!"

Really, if I had to do my life over with what I know now? I would have spent much of the .com crash trying to go to college. I dono if I would have done very well, but I was much better equipped then than I was right out of high school. (well, that, or staying at MAPS. I don't know if I could have handled it, but if I could have, I would have been a thousand times better off than I was hiding out where I did.)

I mean, my main takaway there? even authority figures that genuinely care about and want to do right by you often give bad advice. Your life gets vastly better once you gain self-determinism.

Re: Adderall Addiction: The Last All-Nighter

#210

Post by darrenkopp » Tue, Mar 05, 2013, 10:57 PM UTC

cube13 wrote: post #76

darrenkopp wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. I've had ADHD for my entire life, but I seem to be able to just go on and off of it whenever I want and the only side effects is that I no longer have the benefits. In fact, I regularly do just stop taking it for time to time when I need to be more creative rather than more focused.

Myself as well. The only difference is that I have a greater appetite when I'm off it. Considering that I am overweight by just about any metric, that isn't a totally bad side effect, because I don't stop eating, I just don't eat as much when on it.

Same here to a small extent. I find that I am not hungry for lunch when on it. My breakfast / dinner appetite remains the same.