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Web Development: A Crazy World

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201–206 of 206 posts

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really dislike the anti-intellectualism in fallacious quips like that. People discussing haskell and clojure are not magically prevented from writing code as a result of their intellectual curiosity and desire to explore better tools and methods. The implication that people who are smart and use quality tools never accomplish anything or do any work is quite insidious, as newcomers start taking pride in ignorance b…

I guess strictly speaking it's a false dilemma to say you're either arguing endlessly or shipping, but I don't really think that was the spirit of the quote. Unless there are infinite productive hours in your day you have to choose your stack and go for it, and the less boilerplate you have to do to get your stack running, the more time you'll have for productivity. It's nuanced. We all of us owe our careers to the p…

>Unless there are infinite productive hours in your day you have to choose your stack and go for it

But the people advocating haskell and clojure have done that. And they feel that their choice worked out so well that they should be nice enough to tell others how good it is. The people "just shipping with PHP" aren't spending their entire day coding, how is spending a half hour advocating for a programming language any different than spending that half hour watching TV (or as a more apt analogy, spending it arguing that PHP is totally good enough because I am shipping software in it so there's no need to ever try anything else)?

>and the less boilerplate you have to do to get your stack running, the more time you'll have for productivity.

This seems like an implication that using haskell or clojure somehow means having to deal with lots of boilerplate. That is not the case, and it is a rather odd thing to believe. This argument actually works against "just shipping in PHP". The less time you have to spend dealing with bugs that would have been prevented in another language, the more time you'll have for productivity.

>But, you have to draw the line between intellectual wanking and thoughtlessness

I believe the idea that there is anyone engaged in "intellectual wanking" instead of "shipping product" is fallacious. I've advocated haskell here before. Obviously I wasn't writing code while doing so, but would I have been writing code were I not advocating haskell? No, I would have been talking about something else, still not coding. Using downtime to advocate for your preferred language, platform, OS, library, framework, etc is a perfectly reasonable use of time, and if you are willing to read the contrary opinions of others, it can even be educational.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really dislike the anti-intellectualism in fallacious quips like that. People discussing haskell and clojure are not magically prevented from writing code as a result of their intellectual curiosity and desire to explore better tools and methods. The implication that people who are smart and use quality tools never accomplish anything or do any work is quite insidious, as newcomers start taking pride in ignorance b…

That's reading into it quite a bit.

Honestly, I wish I could believe that. But I really don't see how I am reading anything into it. The implication that people who talk about programming languages that he doesn't want to learn about are not "shipping product" is quite clear. I don't see any way to interpret that sentiment other than as anti-intellectualism.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess strictly speaking it's a false dilemma to say you're either arguing endlessly or shipping, but I don't really think that was the spirit of the quote. Unless there are infinite productive hours in your day you have to choose your stack and go for it, and the less boilerplate you have to do to get your stack running, the more time you'll have for productivity. It's nuanced. We all of us owe our careers to the p…

>Unless there are infinite productive hours in your day you have to choose your stack and go for it But the people advocating haskell and clojure have done that. And they feel that their choice worked out so well that they should be nice enough to tell others how good it is. The people "just shipping with PHP" aren't spending their entire day coding, how is spending a half hour advocating for a programming language a…

> the idea that there is anyone engaged in "intellectual wanking" instead of "shipping product" is fallacious

The idea that you could know what everyone is not doing at all times is fallacious.

The time I'm talking about (and I thought has been implied in this thread) is the time where you sit in a meeting room/coffee shop/founder's house, during work hours, arguing about why X is a better stack than Y and why project Foo should use it instead of your "default" stack (not necessarily haskell v. php; X vs Y).

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Unless there are infinite productive hours in your day you have to choose your stack and go for it But the people advocating haskell and clojure have done that. And they feel that their choice worked out so well that they should be nice enough to tell others how good it is. The people "just shipping with PHP" aren't spending their entire day coding, how is spending a half hour advocating for a programming language a…

> the idea that there is anyone engaged in "intellectual wanking" instead of "shipping product" is fallacious The idea that you could know what everyone is not doing at all times is fallacious. The time I'm talking about (and I thought has been implied in this thread) is the time where you sit in a meeting room/coffee shop/founder's house, during work hours, arguing about why X is a better stack than Y and why projec…

>The time I'm talking about

And again, I am saying that time is virtually non-existent. It is a red herring, used to try to pretend that "those weird people who actually learn stuff" aren't getting anything done. People are not talking about haskell and clojure instead of working. That is the entire point.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, not surprising that comment isn't popular among the group of people who are currently exporting their worldview. Harder to see the harm in it when it's your culture that's becoming the monoculture. That's the "good one"!

I don't think that's entirely fair - we can safely assume the Chinese tech forum techsmth has a techie culture, because to the relevance of the rant. That does not mean they do not have heavy influences from their own (and from a quick surf-by Japanese) culture - lots of threads on photos from the 70s and what was it like then. They will export back. Just because all the money in Hollywood is forcing young pretty WAS…

Yeah, it's not just a one way thing. "Western" culture and American in particular is mostly exporting at the moment. I just found it quite funny that a pro diversity comment was downvoted and so disagreed with (well, it was when I posted) here. The startup culture (that HN had a large part in defining) is extremely monolithic and really skewed to exporting ideas right now. Sure, it's happy to import arguments or small ideas from anywhere, but only if they don't disturb the core philosophy.

I feel a powerful need to poke at people, especially smart ones, when they seem to be knee jerk supporting the status quo. Just a good/bad habit of mine.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was just about to post "Cambrian explosion" as an metaphor for the state of javascript libraries. There are good reasons to get the HTML formatting off the server and into the client, so the new style JS is all going in the right direction. So another metaphor: All these frameworks are trying to solve the right problem in the right direction - which one will win out eventually - who knows, but even if you hitch a r…

What will be funny is when we move everything back to server-side once we don't have network latency/bandwidth issues.

In the absence of a way to transmit information faster than light, we will always have network latency issues.
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