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GrapheneOS' rewritten Messages app is released

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Re: GrapheneOS' rewritten Messages app is released

#201

Post by Dylan16807 »

armadyl wrote: post #187
Dylan16807 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bro the Mini was a flop for Apple, it could barely surpass 5% of all iPhone sales during its run. They were making the SE at the exact same time as the mini, two years in a row, and the mini still got billions in sales. If they want a bigger percent, then do it less often and don't split the demand. It's been four and a half years since they did either mini or SE. People would buy plenty. > leave money on the table…

Don’t know what else to say here I guess you and the others here know more than Tim Cook does.

That's a weird statement. Do you think knowing the most about something inevitably leads you to a specific decision? It doesn't.

And this isn't something that would affect their revenue particularly much. So while it's possible I've missed an important factor, even if I'm 100% right it could make sense for most people to say "do the option that leads to more happy customers, while still making boatloads of money", while a CEO says "we have enough happy customers, go for the extra sliver of money". Or an extra payment from Meta or whatever, I wasn't really talking about that idea, I was just arguing against their abandonment of small phones. The point is, don't use CEOs to guide your intuition of what decisions are best.

Re: GrapheneOS' rewritten Messages app is released

#202

Post by grapheneos »

tcfhgj wrote: post #56
OneDeuxTriSeiGo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. RCS is still quite hard to actually implement. There's an open issue for it but the effort is mildly herculean. AFAIUI though GOS does intend on providing an RCS impl eventually even if it takes years to do.

also I think RCS is way to insecure for Graphene OS - they have no way of making sure the communication is actually 100% secure. In my experience, Graphene OS doesn't make compromises.

We've announced our plan to add RCS with Messaging Layer Security (MLS) for E2EE compatible with Google Messages and iOS. SMS/MMS will only be a fallback once that's implemented.

Re: GrapheneOS' rewritten Messages app is released

#203

Post by grapheneos »

fph wrote: post #82
tcfhgj wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

also I think RCS is way to insecure for Graphene OS - they have no way of making sure the communication is actually 100% secure. In my experience, Graphene OS doesn't make compromises.

Why would they support SMS then?

They're incorrect, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49669964.

Re: GrapheneOS' rewritten Messages app is released

#204

Post by grapheneos »

prophesi wrote: post #152
sellmesoap wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SMS is a defacto carrier tech that people expect to work, people also don't expect e2ee or any kind of privacy scheme on SMS but it might be a place to hand communication off to a different tech. Whereas RCS leaks meta data to the goog or worse (I don't know the ins and outs of RCS) but by default I would trust it less then signal, who may also collect meta data leaked through the goog, so I guess the real solution i…

Signal > RCS > SMS. Just because RCS can't be done without metadata doesn't mean it's a fruitless endeavor. Why not have someone use RCS to then get on Signal? That is so much better than plaintext SMS to Signal. And for most people, RCS between Android iOS is the biggest advancement in encrypted communication for the layman that I've seen since Let's Encrypt.

We've announced our plan to add RCS with Messaging Layer Security (MLS) for E2EE compatible with Google Messages and iOS. SMS/MMS will only be a fallback once that's implemented.

Google Messages is essentially the only remaining RCS client for Android and it's the only one with end-to-end encryption. It already works on GrapheneOS via a toggle for ICC authentication extending our sandboxed Google Play compatibility layer. We want to add support for it to our own Messaging app but that's not straightforward since it's not at all an open platform even to the extent of SMS/MMS.

Re: GrapheneOS' rewritten Messages app is released

#206

Post by grapheneos »

microtonal wrote: post #171
subscribed wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Messaging, high impact. Messaging can be replaced with one of the hundreds decent messaging apps. Unlike the backup app which is utterly unusable, untrustworthy and frankly crap. And CANNOT be replaced by anything else. As it stands it's impossible to have reliable backups in GOS.

Very few of them will support RCS (I think currently only Google Messages?), which GrapheneOS also wants to support. I agree that a new backup system is also high impact, but there can be more than one high-impact thing, and the Message app is really low-hanging fruit.

GrapheneOS already supports using Google Messages with RCS. Google Messages is essentially the only RCS app for Android and it's the only one supporting end-to-end encryption. There were other apps such as a Samsung one but they died out and are nearly entirely only still around on outdated devices as a legacy app. We don't want people to need to use Google Messages for RCS and plan to add it to our Messaging app.

Re: GrapheneOS' rewritten Messages app is released

#207

Post by Dylan16807 »

tsunamifury wrote: post #66
andrepd wrote: post #63

Seeing "Material 3/Material You" is a negative point for me, not a positive. It's almost comical just how atrocious the UI is. Yes let's make all phones 20% huge-er and all whitespace 40% wider, said no sane person ever.

It’s amazing that you don’t think any of this is based on real HCI. People prefer larger tap targets on touch screens.

Larger than what? That only goes so far.

And tons of whitespace doesn't make the tap targets bigger. It exacerbates the problem of bigger targets causing less to fit on the screen.

Re: GrapheneOS' rewritten Messages app is released

#208

Post by grapheneos »

OneDeuxTriSeiGo wrote: post #7
mewse-hn wrote: post #4

Does it do RCS?

No. RCS is still quite hard to actually implement. There's an open issue for it but the effort is mildly herculean. AFAIUI though GOS does intend on providing an RCS impl eventually even if it takes years to do.

It may take a long time to make a fully standalone implementation and that may not be compatible with most carriers. However, we plan to provide it in the short term through support for using the Google RCS infrastructure. We can have it start out supporting using sandboxed Google Play for RCS activation in the same way Google Messages uses it to replace Google Messages.

Re: GrapheneOS' rewritten Messages app is released

#209

Post by grapheneos »

seany wrote: post #141
OneDeuxTriSeiGo wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. RCS is still quite hard to actually implement. There's an open issue for it but the effort is mildly herculean. AFAIUI though GOS does intend on providing an RCS impl eventually even if it takes years to do.

RCS is really the only thing I truly am annoyed by with rooted devices. If GrapheneOS can build something open that works we should be able to rip it apart and get it to work without passing play integrity.

RCS already works on GrapheneOS via Google Messages using sandboxed Google Play. We have an ICC authentication toggle for granting the required access to Google Play services. We want to provide our own implementation within our Messaging app to replace Google Messages and then we want to provide an alternate backend not depending on sandboxed Google Play, at least for carriers with their own implementation.

Re: GrapheneOS' rewritten Messages app is released

#210

Post by IseardMi »

drnick1 wrote: post #99
I_am_tiberius wrote: post #40

Everytime I read GrapheneOS news I search for news related to Fairephone. It's such a shame that there's still no official plan for Fairephone to work on requirements for GrapheneOS. The combination of those 2 would be fantastic. It would also open a big new market (I assume) for Fairephone so not sure why there seems no clear sign in that direction at all (to my knowledge).

To be honest the specs of the Fairphone are middling and the device is rather expensive for what you get. The Pixels are a much better value, especially with a series. If you want something truly high end, wait for the Motorola with official GOS support.

Isn't the whole idea behind Fairphone that they are more expensive because the parts are responsibly sourced? That they pay a fair price for labour and materials? And that the phones are highly repairable?

Why would that mean it could compete with a Pixel which generally has none of those goals?

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