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U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

nytimes.com

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Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#201

Post by Timon3 »

otterley wrote: post #198
Timon3 wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the primary reason for people voting like this is the ungodly sums of money spent on elections, combined with the media apparatus built up by the right. I don't think any democracy could survive Fox News. Unfortunately the global right is colluding to export this concept across the globe...

If money won elections, then the outcome of every election could be predicted with accuracy based solely on the relative spending by or on behalf of each candidate. In reality, that's not how it works. There are countless examples of candidates who outspent their opponents and lost. Money gets you reach. It doesn't get you guaranteed results. Besides, the voters don't get any of that money, nor do they even know most…

I didn't say that money wins elections, but nice try.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if conservatives could affect more voters with the same amount of money, since spreading bullshit is much cheaper than proving it wrong. The right can flood the zone with a firehose of lies, and even if they literally admit these lies, their voters go along.

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#202

Post by cyanydeez »

nomel wrote: post #107
cyanydeez wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the history has demonstrated these are Republican problems. Democrats are shit for other things, but not for fisical stupidity like cutting taxes and rasing spending.

Why does nobody post references anymore!? These are simple facts that nobody should be arguing about. https://www.investopedia.com/democrats-vs-republicans-who-ha... > Republican presidents added about $1.4 trillion per four-year term, compared to $1.2 trillion added by Democrats since 1913. > Democratic presidents have added a total of $18 trillion to the national debt since 1913 (adjusted for inflation), while Repu…

lmgtfy and ask chatgpt; if you cant' ascertain the truth of this statement you live in a delusion.

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#203

Post by insane_dreamer »

HDThoreaun wrote: post #188
insane_dreamer wrote: post #112

brought to you by the "party of fiscal responsibility"

And democrats were the party of slavery, these things change since there are only 2 parties in the country

what does that have to do with it?

the GOP is _still_ proclaiming itself to be the party of fiscal responsibility

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#204

Post by jambalaya8 »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #152
jambalaya8 wrote: post #51

Welp, I am just glad I have no debts or loans myself; paid all my student loans off well over a decade ago. Excited to not have a credit rating whatsoever.

I'm happy for you, but suspect the "Everything is Fine" meme could have substituted for your comment. The ebbing tide will lower all ships…

I fully know this. But someday if the dystopic bounty hunters come to me for a chunk of that distressingly ludicrous national debt, I can at least annoy them.

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#205

Post by otterley »

Timon3 wrote: post #201
otterley wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If money won elections, then the outcome of every election could be predicted with accuracy based solely on the relative spending by or on behalf of each candidate. In reality, that's not how it works. There are countless examples of candidates who outspent their opponents and lost. Money gets you reach. It doesn't get you guaranteed results. Besides, the voters don't get any of that money, nor do they even know most…

I didn't say that money wins elections, but nice try. Though I wouldn't be surprised if conservatives could affect more voters with the same amount of money, since spreading bullshit is much cheaper than proving it wrong. The right can flood the zone with a firehose of lies, and even if they literally admit these lies , their voters go along.

I...didn’t say you did say that? No need to be defensive.

But a reasonable interpretation of “the primary reason for people voting like this is the ungodly sums of money spent on elections” is that such a direct causal link exists.

If you meant something else, happy to receive a clarification.

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#206

Post by WrexyBalls »

frogperson wrote: post #28
rhelz wrote: post #3

By the time Trump leaves office, the whole federal government will be completely trashed, up to and including the East Wing of the White House being torn down to a hole in the ground. I've never felt so alienated from the leaders of my industry, from my politicians, and from my fellow citizens. Ya'll should have known better. It is the information age, all ignorance is willful ignorance.

Citizens United ruined the great american experiment. if you have seen the chart of campaign financing since CU, you would understand. Politicians have zero need to represent citizens because they know unlimited funds are available for marketing to keep/earn your seat. America simply is no longer a democracy or representative democracy.

[dead]

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#207

Post by Timon3 »

otterley wrote: post #205
Timon3 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say that money wins elections, but nice try. Though I wouldn't be surprised if conservatives could affect more voters with the same amount of money, since spreading bullshit is much cheaper than proving it wrong. The right can flood the zone with a firehose of lies, and even if they literally admit these lies , their voters go along.

I...didn’t say you did say that? No need to be defensive. But a reasonable interpretation of “the primary reason for people voting like this is the ungodly sums of money spent on elections” is that such a direct causal link exists. If you meant something else, happy to receive a clarification.

Then I must admit I'm unsure how to interpret your objections, since I understand you to be arguing against the position "The group spending the most money must always win elections". If you're not assuming that I'm taking this position, why bring it up?

> If you meant something else, happy to receive a clarification.

As a thought experiment, assume we're playing gods and decide to simulate a bunch of universes almost exactly like ours, so we can reliably study how civilizations develop (free from the influence of random chance). Then we evaluate how many of these civilizations had periods of strong corruption, loss in quality of life, and all the other negatives we're experiencing this decade.

My argument is: you'd find a correlation between these periods, and the relative amounts of wealth invested into politics. Note this doesn't imply that bigger sums of money must lead to victory - especially if the thesis mentioned in my first reply is correct, which I very much assume it is.

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#208

Post by otterley »

Timon3 wrote: post #207
otterley wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I...didn’t say you did say that? No need to be defensive. But a reasonable interpretation of “the primary reason for people voting like this is the ungodly sums of money spent on elections” is that such a direct causal link exists. If you meant something else, happy to receive a clarification.

Then I must admit I'm unsure how to interpret your objections, since I understand you to be arguing against the position "The group spending the most money must always win elections". If you're not assuming that I'm taking this position, why bring it up? > If you meant something else, happy to receive a clarification. As a thought experiment, assume we're playing gods and decide to simulate a bunch of universes almos…

I'm not sure. On the other hand, there're plenty of corruption and loss of quality of life where there's not much money in electioneering, or not even a democracy. Take Russia, for example, or any of a number of African or Central American countries.

Re: U.S. Debt Hits $40T as America's Borrowing Binge Continues

#209

Post by ReptileMan »

bijowo1676 wrote: post #199
otterley wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Way I see it, US has the power to just tell any creditor that they won't be repaying It does not. The Fourteenth Amendment forbids that. Section 4: "The validity of the public debt of the United States...shall not be questioned."

US can always print currency to cover existing debt, the problem is convincing investors to keep lending money to the US and keep buying US bonds

You can always print money out of thin air and instead with debt, fuel spending with inflation.
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