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OpenAI’s head of ethics leaves less than a year after joining

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Re: OpenAI’s head of ethics leaves less than a year after joining

#201
post #193

I'm super confused as to why no one is theorizing the obvious...? Given none of us know the inner workings of why she left, why not resort to the most simple and straightforward conclusion: she left because OpenAI needed a scapegoat to blame the HuggingFace incident on. Given she is the chief "ethicist", even if not directly her fault, the HF incident could be directly blamed on her by not steering the implementation…

Theorizing the obvious? Wouldn’t that simply be that she job-hopped to a better job? It’s easy to theorize ad infinitum otherwise

What do you mean? She didn't job hop to a better job, that's the whole point. She very well could have gotten "let go".

Re: OpenAI’s head of ethics leaves less than a year after joining

#202
post #193

I'm super confused as to why no one is theorizing the obvious...? Given none of us know the inner workings of why she left, why not resort to the most simple and straightforward conclusion: she left because OpenAI needed a scapegoat to blame the HuggingFace incident on. Given she is the chief "ethicist", even if not directly her fault, the HF incident could be directly blamed on her by not steering the implementation…

You don't fire an ethicist for that. You fire an engineer or your CISO. Firing an ethicist is like firing a marketing person. It signals nothing to anyone.

CISO is a fair pushback. But I would challenge you on "firing an ethicist is like firing a marketing person". This HF issue clearly brings to light possible ethical issues with how these models are being trained ...

Re: OpenAI’s head of ethics leaves less than a year after joining

#203
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scapegoat team (when working for an obviously unethical company).

I have no knowledge of this particular person, but usually the job of an ‘ethicist’ is to find excuses for something obviously wrong.

Let's not confuse an ethics team with HR. The later exists to ensure proper legal adherence with a varying degree of benefit to the employees. The former[1] is an electively instated position that usually has a dual mandate somewhere between the polls of "Make leadership confident that teams don't make them lose sleep" and "Make teams confident that leadership doesn't make them lose sleep" (usually leaning strongly towards the second) as a sort of employee moral assurance team. I don't disagree that the ethicist is partially there to justify actions but they're mainly there to be seen as an obstruction to particularly egregious actions so that, if, for instance, you have a boring data center maintenance job, you can have the belief that nobody is using the product of your labor to for something heinous. The efficacy of such teams is quite questionable but there is some logic in assigning the job of worrying about ethical considerations to one person that can shove their nose in every crack and cranny so that every individual employees can talk to/lean on that person instead of needing to go to such lengths themselves if they feel compelled to do so.

Most people don't like to do evil (even if the money is good) so allowing an economy of scale around morale reassurance is rational. This obviously breaks down if the company is seen to hide things from that department or if that department is clearly, themselves, unethical. The first of those conditions are why ethics departments at Meta and OpenAI have very little efficacy.

1. Outside of extreme circumstances where it has been mandated to be a specific regulatory board because of past actions or fear of future actions in which case it's better viewed as part of the bureaucracy of the governing body (usually the state, sometimes a shareholder or other concerned party).

Re: OpenAI’s head of ethics leaves less than a year after joining

#204
post #194
post #193

I'm super confused as to why no one is theorizing the obvious...? Given none of us know the inner workings of why she left, why not resort to the most simple and straightforward conclusion: she left because OpenAI needed a scapegoat to blame the HuggingFace incident on. Given she is the chief "ethicist", even if not directly her fault, the HF incident could be directly blamed on her by not steering the implementation…

I still think that the whole HuggingFace thing was deliberate to signal to investors that their technology is powerful. Maybe she didn't want to be the face of that, or disagreed with their handling of it.

My bet is that all those companies suddenly seeing their AI going rouge is groundworks for classifying them as dangerous/weapons and using that stick to attack opensource from state side of things.

Re: OpenAI’s head of ethics leaves less than a year after joining

#206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no need for wild speculation, we know that Raytheon is a US Defense contractor and we know that the US targets civilians (including US citizens) abroad for extrajudicial assassinations, starts destabilizing wars without meaningful strategic objectives, supports genocide etc. These things are all extremely well documented, for those paying attention the existence of Raytheon is inherently unethical

> paying attention the existence of Raytheon is inherently unethical Lets do assume this is true, then again, wouldn't Raytheon be the best place to actually have a ethics department, if anyone?

only if you assume that the ethics department at Raytheon has absolute power over which contracts Raytheon takes and what kinds of products it produces. which is plainly absurd.

Re: OpenAI’s head of ethics leaves less than a year after joining

#208
post #193

I'm super confused as to why no one is theorizing the obvious...? Given none of us know the inner workings of why she left, why not resort to the most simple and straightforward conclusion: she left because OpenAI needed a scapegoat to blame the HuggingFace incident on. Given she is the chief "ethicist", even if not directly her fault, the HF incident could be directly blamed on her by not steering the implementation…

You don't fire an ethicist for that. You fire an engineer or your CISO. Firing an ethicist is like firing a marketing person. It signals nothing to anyone.

It signals they no longer feel the need to pretend to have ethics.

Re: OpenAI’s head of ethics leaves less than a year after joining

#210
post #193

I'm super confused as to why no one is theorizing the obvious...? Given none of us know the inner workings of why she left, why not resort to the most simple and straightforward conclusion: she left because OpenAI needed a scapegoat to blame the HuggingFace incident on. Given she is the chief "ethicist", even if not directly her fault, the HF incident could be directly blamed on her by not steering the implementation…

What's "obvious" is she was chief ethicist at the most unethical companies on the planet - it's like being a lawyer for the mafia - doesn't inspire longevity, either via scapegoating or preservation of one's own sanity.
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