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A missing underscore sent innocent man to prison for 18 months

arstechnica.com

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Re: A missing underscore sent innocent man to prison for 18 months

#201

Post by cindyllm »

mothballed wrote: post #198
illliillll wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obsessing about intent here is so gross. A careless psychopath firing a gun into a crowd doesn’t necessarily care if he hits anyone. Despite the lack of intent, most would consider that careless psychopath worse than an individual that commits premeditated homicide for a reason other than “fun”. Intent is irrelevant. The person firing a gun into a crowd knows the consequences of their actions just as well as a lazy j…

The job of the prosecutor is to convict, I don't think it matters whether the person is innocent or not. They have no moral responsibility, if it is most efficient to their career to damn an innocent person the system is designed for the purpose of doing so.

[dead]

Re: A missing underscore sent innocent man to prison for 18 months

#203

Post by mothballed »

sirsinsalot wrote: post #200
inigyou wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The justice system isn't the only thing that randomly kills you.

Right, and...? Just because many things can do something doesn't negate a discussion about one of the things. Your point (which it barely is one) isn't really interesting or useful.

It effectively does for the average person person. You think you have a tiny ability to change or influence it, when in fact you do not, at least not while exercising the range of options and risk you find acceptable*. It is not of much different design today than during the Salem Witch Trials, 300 years ago, and sits in the one branch of government with next to zero democratic levers of control. The justice system is effectively a natural disaster or act of god to the typical person.

Most people harm themselves more by considering it anything more than a fixed system to be calculated against, bashing their head into a wall for no gain.

* To the typical HN user

Re: A missing underscore sent innocent man to prison for 18 months

#204

Post by nimonian »

vintermann wrote: post #154
jasonfarnon wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"the only possible evidence they had was the wrong username." Out of curiosity and definitely not defending this prosecution, but if the chain "unique Kik username -> unique gmail address -> unique ISP user -> guy living alone, happens to have Kik on his device" weren't screwed up by the investigators submitting the wrong username, would you say that's enough for a jury to convict ? I don't know about Canada but in t…

> happens to have Kik on his device That would have been (highly likely) true by construction, after all the single underscore username did exist. The only case it wouldn't have been true is if they deleted the app but not their account I guess.

_Exactly_.

Both the article and the parent comment treat "happens to have Kik account" as an independent discovery that affects our Bayesian inference.

No. The innocent was identified exactly _because_ they have a Kik account, so the conditional probability they have a Kik account is 1.

Re: A missing underscore sent innocent man to prison for 18 months

#205

Post by e40 »

OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #129
qingcharles wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about the Canadian justice system, but it's very hard in the USA for defendants to get expert witnesses. The state is supposed to pay, but it's almost never done, and when it is they pay bottom rate for the defendant while having unlimited funds for their own experts.

Oh something I can comment on! A friend of mine was facing a mountain of criminal charges. Photo evidence proved the cops lied. We needed an expert testimony explaining the camera angle and why the photo explained how the cops lied. I think we called every service qualified for providing such a testimony in Ontario, and a good portion of them across all of Canada. Some were even happy to work with us, until they foun…

You can’t leave is hanging like that! What happened?

Re: A missing underscore sent innocent man to prison for 18 months

#206

Post by jkestner »

PxldLtd wrote: post #186
femto wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably no compensation. Under "English" law (Canada is a Commonwealth country), the wrongful conviction will probably to taken to be without malice and reasonable given the information the US provided, so tough luck. He might be able to negotiate an ex gratia payment, but this will be entirely at the whim of a politician, who will be looking to avoid being criticised for giving away government money

We used to charge innocent men for room and board in prison after being released here in the UK not long ago. They only changed this in 2023 after uproar in a recent case of an innocent man being freed.

It’s currently the case in many US states: https://www.npr.org/2022/03/04/1084452251/the-vast-majority-...

Re: A missing underscore sent innocent man to prison for 18 months

#207

Post by FrustratedMonky »

thephyber wrote: post #61
FrustratedMonky wrote: post #21

The article didn't mention any follow up. He actually served his full sentence. Did he sue after? Was there any accountability?.

He was just acquitted last week. Let the process play out. "News" is called that because it is new and things are still happening.

wow.

Well, actually, my dear fellow, "NEWS" is short for N.E.W.S., which is North, East, West, and South. Indubitably. How smart, very intelligent.

Re: A missing underscore sent innocent man to prison for 18 months

#208

Post by mothballed »

e40 wrote: post #205
OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh something I can comment on! A friend of mine was facing a mountain of criminal charges. Photo evidence proved the cops lied. We needed an expert testimony explaining the camera angle and why the photo explained how the cops lied. I think we called every service qualified for providing such a testimony in Ontario, and a good portion of them across all of Canada. Some were even happy to work with us, until they foun…

You can’t leave is hanging like that! What happened?

There are a gazillion federal prosecutions in the US that go something like

1) Pile of evidence that someone is guilty.

2) Federal "expert witness" allowed and funded to testify it points to X person

3) Defense is broke

4) If defense not broke, judge finds reason why defense expert witness can't present their full argument

5) Prosecution offers plea deal or a gazillion years in jail

6) Person folds when they realize none of their defense is allowed or will be funded, or goes to trial and gets a gazillion years for daring to go to trial.

If you already have a pile of evidence for a crime and an expert witnesses you can keep piling on it's not much of a stretch to dump it on some random person, as we saw here, quite easy actually.

Re: A missing underscore sent innocent man to prison for 18 months

#209

Post by [deleted] »

notabotiswear wrote: post #199
throw383949 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canadian justice system is under stronge pressure to bring rate of conviction up. Only 0.001% rapist end in prison and bs like that. Some corners must be cut, to reach quotas!

Uh, how many rapists do you guys have trolling about to even manage to produce a percentage like that?

[deleted]

Re: A missing underscore sent innocent man to prison for 18 months

#210

Post by inigyou »

mothballed wrote: post #203
sirsinsalot wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and...? Just because many things can do something doesn't negate a discussion about one of the things. Your point (which it barely is one) isn't really interesting or useful.

It effectively does for the average person person. You think you have a tiny ability to change or influence it, when in fact you do not, at least not while exercising the range of options and risk you find acceptable*. It is not of much different design today than during the Salem Witch Trials, 300 years ago, and sits in the one branch of government with next to zero democratic levers of control. The justice system i…

To extend the metaphor, HN people don't build a house because 'what if there's a flood tomorrow' and end up sleeping in the dirt.
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