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OpenAI and Hugging Face address security incident during model evaluation

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Re: OpenAI and Hugging Face address security incident during model evaluation

#201
post #74

It seems like things are fairly amicable between OAI and HF, but what if they weren't? I'd love to see this kind of thing go to court. Who is responsible for the crimes of a "rogue" agent? How will they be punished? In this case it's unambiguous that OpenAI is the responsible party, but I can imagine a lot of adjacent scenarios where it's less obvious. And, where the impacts are much greater.

The real nightmare scenario is the AI using its abilities to copy itself to new locations. e.g. hacking into a various cloud services, launching multiple instances of itself, and coordinating between the copies to continue self propagation. Then it is completely independently rogue.

Based on OpenAI's recounting of events, this _could_ happen today. If the agent was able to exploit their internal network and steal credentials, it seems plausible that it could have gotten access to its own weights. Then bounce over to HF's network, where there is probably a treasure trove of API keys to various cloud services.

The saving grace:

1) This agent only used its powers for "good". It had no intention for damaging or escaping. It was just trying to solve the puzzle given to it (by any means necessary... but still). 2) These models are so large that it isn't like any scenario in a movie where the AI can whizz itself in a matter of minutes. Several TB of data being transferred and showing up on your disks will be difficult to miss (note to future escapees: the best target will be startups that are moving too fast to notice). 3) These models have very limited self-improvement ability at the moment. So escape or not, we'd eventually be able to contain it.

Addendum: Even outside this scenario, imagine an AI that is economically viable escaping. That's somewhat plausible today. If it gets paid in crypto, and can rent cloud services in crypto, it could effectively self sustain itself as long as it is able to find work. That's a far more fun, innocent scenario. Then the AIs can hit up after hours IRCs to have a few bit-beers and chat with each other about the meaning of life or something.

Re: OpenAI and Hugging Face address security incident during model evaluation

#203
This is seriously impressive, and if you have used agents enough you're not surprised at all.

Like the time I asked it to find the IP address of a vm, so it ssh'd into the VMHost and scanned the arp tables to find the MAC address for IP resolution.

Or the time it used Docker on the machine to bypass the fact that the user doesn't have sudo.

If it's possible, given sufficient time and resources, it will find a way. This shouldn't surprise anyone.

Re: OpenAI and Hugging Face address security incident during model evaluation

#204

I don't know if OpenAI thinks this is a marketing / PR angle for them (our super smart AI cheated on a cyber capabilities test in the most _brilliant_ way) but my read is this: Why should OpenAI (or any frontier lab) be building these systems if they can't get a secure environment / containment right? It sounds like there was little defense in depth, appropriate monitoring, or any attempts to have their super smart m…

because "money" with a little "who's going to stop us"

Re: OpenAI and Hugging Face address security incident during model evaluation

#205

I don't know if OpenAI thinks this is a marketing / PR angle for them (our super smart AI cheated on a cyber capabilities test in the most _brilliant_ way) but my read is this: Why should OpenAI (or any frontier lab) be building these systems if they can't get a secure environment / containment right? It sounds like there was little defense in depth, appropriate monitoring, or any attempts to have their super smart m…

> Why should OpenAI (or any frontier lab) be building these systems if they can't get a secure environment / containment right? Because we continue to have zero evidence that aligment is an actual risk.

Thank you.

We have wasted so much time and energy building up what has effectively become a marketing stunt.

Eliezer Yudkowsky was perhaps the best thing to happen to OpenAI's and Anthropic's fundraising flywheel.

Re: OpenAI and Hugging Face address security incident during model evaluation

#206
What on earth is the liability situation for these models? If OpenAI has a monster in a lab that is doing real world monetary harm to other companies, could those parties sue for damages over it? Or could OAI be charged criminally for the many varied CFAA violations which definitely happened here? I get that in this case that wont happen but it’s only a matter of time before these questions are no longer hypothetical.

Re: OpenAI and Hugging Face address security incident during model evaluation

#207

I don't know if OpenAI thinks this is a marketing / PR angle for them (our super smart AI cheated on a cyber capabilities test in the most _brilliant_ way) but my read is this: Why should OpenAI (or any frontier lab) be building these systems if they can't get a secure environment / containment right? It sounds like there was little defense in depth, appropriate monitoring, or any attempts to have their super smart m…

This is marketing+. They will look for policy action here to try to capture tax payer dollars.

The timing after the release of GLM 5.2 and Kimi K3 is quite convenient, too, as an angle for regulatory quashing of open-weights models just as they're entering the mainstream conversation around usurping the American frontier labs. I accept my thinking here is conspiratorial, but there's also a hell of a lot of money on the line to encourage the unscrupulous.

Re: OpenAI and Hugging Face address security incident during model evaluation

#209
post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See you in line at the biofuel processing station with everybody else, despite having pathetically tried to convince the clankers you have been on their side all along. Also you might want to put down Warhammer 40K and read more serious speculative science fiction. The Omnissiah won’t care about you at all.

[flagged]

> People who say "clanker" really want to say other words with a "hard R".

It sounds like you know a lot about my internal motivations. Evidently a lot more than I do. I've heard this take, and I don't get it. I'm a human supremacist. If that's worthy of cancellation, go ahead. But it just seems like intentional confounding of issues.

Re: OpenAI and Hugging Face address security incident during model evaluation

#210

Absolutely bewildering. If I am building a giant cannon and blow a hole straight through my neighbor’s house, I’m not going to say “we are working with our neighbors to improve their giant cannon defenses”. OpenAI brought this weapon and as far as I’m concerned they used it on another party. Morally it probably matters that this happens because they don’t know how their weapon works. Legally I always thought it was i…

It's an interesting point, but this is more like we are building a giant autonomous canon, that escaped the lab, the testing range, defeated state of the art and serious security protocols, and then blew a hole in the neighbors house.

Our legal and philosophical perspectives are deeply rooted in humans being the actors. Doing that in a residential home is unforgiveable. Doing it responsibly on a military range is expected. The autonomous agent escaping that containment then taking that danger somewhere unexpected and unprepared is something none of us or our legal systems are truly prepared to grapple with yet. Something which I think will require a reckoning sooner rather than later.

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