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Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

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Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#201

Post by surgical_fire »

darth_avocado wrote: post #3

Well technically they don’t own the debt, the SPVs that own the data centers do. The giants just have long term commitments, but if shit hits the fan, it’s not the tech giants but the banks that lent the money to the SPVs that are at risk. This usually means all of us are on the hook.

That is not accurate according to the article:

> By investing in the data center's operating company with a 20% stake and using the facility under a lease agreement, Meta secured computing resources but also increased its hidden debt.

> Meta has a contract guaranteeing investors' losses if the data center becomes unnecessary and the lease is terminated.

The way they are hiding these debts is by having a stake in a data center company. But if shit goes tits up they are contractually liable for 100% of the losses.

It's not the fund that lent the money to the SPV, it is Meta who is offering guarantees here.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#202

Post by hparadiz »

microtonal wrote: post #195
hparadiz wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Objectivly. Yes. Not only am seeing it being used to increase farming yields it's also improving healthcare. Both water and electricity are the lowest they have ever been as a percentage of income and only getting lower. People keep looking at flat dollar figures like inflation isn't a thing and it's still 1995 or something. In reality we're accelerating to an abundance economy. https://finance.yahoo.com/economy/arti…

I must be living in a different universe. Where I am, people under 40 cannot afford to buy a house. This was certainly very different in the 80ies of 90ies.

I got mine at 34 and I'm not 40 just yet.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#203

Post by r721 »

bmenrigh wrote: post #65
Shank wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, does DoH work?

A pretty reasonable question. I guess it could be my ISP filtering. Or rather could have been, since the issue seems like it was transient. I'm now getting resolutions. Very strange, I wish I'd recorded what was going on better while it was broken.

You could try using archive.today to see where it would redirect you (some other archive TLDs are less filtered depending on ISP, and I believe .today autoselects the best one for your IP).

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#204

Post by xtiansimon »

AznHisoka wrote: post #4
darth_avocado wrote: post #3

Well technically they don’t own the debt, the SPVs that own the data centers do. The giants just have long term commitments, but if shit hits the fan, it’s not the tech giants but the banks that lent the money to the SPVs that are at risk. This usually means all of us are on the hook.

As someone who belongs to “all of us”, i vote to not bail us out if shit hits the fan. No need to ask me when it happens, OK? No really, it’s nice of you but we really dont need to be bailed out. You are welcome :)

> “As someone who belongs to “all of us”, i vote to not bail us out if shit hits the fan.”

You have alighted onto an interesting topic: “bail out”. I believe a closely related word on the semiotic chain is “retreat”.

I don’t feel that our culture would wish to “retreat” from AI. I know quite a few managers and programmers who absolutely delight in the fruits of the industry.

No doubt the titans of the AI industry, who stand to lose their shirts, would also like a bailout. As would the workers under their leadership. Finally, if the governments of the world are taking “AI” technologies as seriously as I think they are, then I should expect a bailout in the event of bubble go boom is inevitable.

In which case, Buy Low; Sell High.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#205

Post by Freedumbs »

4ggr0 wrote: post #136
gilfyole wrote: post #132

A bubble in progress waiting for right time (hello 2028) to burst.

why do you consider 2028 to be the right time for a pop?

because the maga regime operates this way. they make short term policies to inflate the economy that aren't sustainable while in power, then deadlock congress so the time bomb policies are locked in. it's the same play every time, but now insanely brazen as rules only sort of matter sometimes depending on the actor. gop has always wrecked the economy. this is true nationally, state and local levels. the evidence is there if anyone cares to learn. yes all politicians are corrupt. yes, most democrats are also corrupt. that means the system should be reformed to reign in campaign finance. and also prosecute all the criminals. we can't time travel to undo the mistakes, but we can start fixing them today. imprison the traitors.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#206

Post by bakies »

dartharva wrote: post #37
King-Aaron wrote: post #13

These debts mean nothing if the US government actually views AI technology as being on par with the Manhattan project. They'll just bail them out or nationalise them.

They'll bail them out with what money? US is already almost $40T in debt, how do you think the bond market would react if another $2T were abruptly added to it?

... Nothing happens? They're not correlated at all. We've added 35T since 2000 and yield were all over and we're at the same spot as then

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#207

Post by orwin »

DrScientist wrote: post #184
mlrtime wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are trying to define zero sum without saying it. The market is not zero sum, a loan isn't zero sum. There isn't a winner and loser.

Why not? What am I missing. If you loan me 10 pounds and I simply keep it or spend it but refuse to pay you back - aren't I the winner and you the loser? Claiming that the market is a positive sum system, because I use that 10 pounds to invent something that changes world productivity is missing the fact that there is a constant stream of huge energy inputs from the sun - that's ultimately what allows the local entro…

I borrow you 10 money i use to buy my chair-making tools. I make the chair, sell it 20 money, then pay you 12 money back for the service rendered. Basically money is supposed to be a tool that help us creating capital by exchanging goods.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#208

Post by Lerc »

thin_carapace wrote: post #179
weregiraffe wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lol, now every pattern of speech is AI? How about we jusr stop talking then?

I have noted the employment of a language technique that as per the wikipedia article "signs of AI writing" is commonly used by AI, you can attack facts all you like and that will indeed stop me from talking!

I think the distinction is that when an AI generates the phrase it chooses to use the negation and then fills in the terms. If it only has one thing to communicate at that point then it is essentially placing a redundant rephrasing on onr side of the negation.

My use of it took the form of

A statement on how a guillotine kills people when they are powerless.

The negation then, in the first part compares that to the connotation of the previous post of an underdog battling those in power, and rejects it as inconsistent and the negation provides an alternative framing that is consistent with the action of killing a person who can no longer harm you.

Both sides of the negation make a point.

This is obviously much more common in a dialogue than a monologue, because the first part is used to reference words of the other party. In a monologue, that other party is the past self of the speaker, it suggests a change in position. I think models end up using as a short hand for realisation.

Are there any good collections of negation usage in AI with the surrounding paragraphs? I'd be interested to see what percentage of them are an expression of self realisation.

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#209

Post by kishkash »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #41
stymaar wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This the proof that guillotine is useful, if not to be used, to make the elite behave in way that avoid suffering it.

They think they’re immune. Even after Luigi, they still think they’re immune

[dead]

Re: Five US tech giants' hidden debts soar to $1.65T on opaque AI funding

#210

Post by senordevnyc »

thin_carapace wrote: post #194
senordevnyc wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I don't know how to respond to your comment with decorum so I'm going to say goodbye, and pray that you mentor your juniors better than the way you treated me today mr senor dev

I’m not the one here agitating for mass violence.
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