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Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

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Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#201

Post by curioussam »

franciscop wrote: post #139
skinfaxi wrote: post #5

> Since the hack, officials restored their website and posted a message announcing they are rebuilding the agency's entire network from scratch. Even if the hacker claims they deleted backups, the agency appears to have had an offline copy, otherwise things would have gotten really messy over the coming months in Romania. So it seems not all has been lost. I was worried about the societal implications of being unable…

This happened in a 50k people town where my father is from in 1982 with a BIG flood that destroyed the town land registry documents (among a lot of the town). Since he's a lawyer, had first hand experience and I was always curious I asked many things about this a while back. Basically, what happened is that they rebuilt it from proof of ownership and testimonies of the people. You can never get to 100% recovery like…

[flagged]

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#202

Post by ItsYan »

dmos62 wrote: post #65
alexpotato wrote: post #37

Romanian friends have told me that this is really due to corruption. Specifically: - government gives IT/data contracts to cronies - cronies don't actually do any real security work to protect the data - things like this happen

Same thing is rampant in other Eastern European countries as well. Tips on how to address this for those of us that are publicly minded?

Vote and join a party

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#203

Post by danielam »

franciscop wrote: post #139
skinfaxi wrote: post #5

> Since the hack, officials restored their website and posted a message announcing they are rebuilding the agency's entire network from scratch. Even if the hacker claims they deleted backups, the agency appears to have had an offline copy, otherwise things would have gotten really messy over the coming months in Romania. So it seems not all has been lost. I was worried about the societal implications of being unable…

This happened in a 50k people town where my father is from in 1982 with a BIG flood that destroyed the town land registry documents (among a lot of the town). Since he's a lawyer, had first hand experience and I was always curious I asked many things about this a while back. Basically, what happened is that they rebuilt it from proof of ownership and testimonies of the people. You can never get to 100% recovery like…

There is little alternative.

A great-great grandfather of mine was mayor of a town through which the front passed twice during WWI. All that survived were basements. Your father's account more or less describes the process by which the land was reparceled.

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#204

Post by dsego »

gchamonlive wrote: post #133
cataphract wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know exactly on it works in Romania, but proving you purchased a patch of land is a different question -- for that you have the deed. You then submit the deed to the land registry. So this situation could at most result in the seller being able to sell the land more than once or disputes over the priority of sales over liens and other competing acts subject to registration.

Here in Brazil lots of people deal land by word of mouth. The country is just too big and there isn't enough state present to make every transaction official, so people shake on it, draft an unofficial document and actually living and developing the land over a long period of time is what consistitutes ownership.

The public public land record in Croatia is notorious for being outdated and poorly maintained. Basically, the last time it was properly maintained was during Austria-Hungary a century ago, or at least that's the popular opinion. Right now we have the cadastre and the land registry and they do not always align. And for your example of unofficial agreements, the land my father and his brothers inherited is still in my grandfather's name, he died over 20 years ago, now my parents are aging, and there is just a verbal agreement on how the property is divided.

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#207

Post by dsego »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #150
skinfaxi wrote: post #5

> Since the hack, officials restored their website and posted a message announcing they are rebuilding the agency's entire network from scratch. Even if the hacker claims they deleted backups, the agency appears to have had an offline copy, otherwise things would have gotten really messy over the coming months in Romania. So it seems not all has been lost. I was worried about the societal implications of being unable…

> I was worried about the societal implications of being unable to prove land ownership but it seems that may be avoided. You know, it's not like people would come and steal your land overnight because you can't provide proof of ownership.

People can come and cut down trees, use the land for their cattle, raise crops or just start building something. If you don't challenge it and they get away with it for a while, they could even gain use of the land legally.

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#208

Post by osinix »

The backups got wiped together with the systems, so they were reachable from same network. A backup the attacker can reach is not a backup. Good they had an offline copy, but a system this important should have that as regular schedule, not depend on luck.

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#209

Post by AndroTux »

RandomLensman wrote: post #49
AndroTux wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Old piece of paper is quite accessible If stored properly. So are digital copies, though. If stored properly.

You need a machine (hardware and software) to read digital copies, not just the digital copies.

And you need to know how to read to read paper copies. Same thing, essentially. Anyone speaking hieroglyphics fluently? Point is, if you take care of your archive and make sure it remains accessible, it doesn't really matter whether it's digital or analog.

Re: Hacker wipes Romania's land registry database

#210

Post by prmoustache »

N19PEDL2 wrote: post #29
andrewshadura wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Restored from very old backups and paper documents.

"Very old" could mean that they were not up to date. What did they do when the backups didn't match the actual situation at the time of the breach?

You do a comparison with the up to date papers. It just takes ages.
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