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Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

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Re: Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

#201

Post by vel0city »

counters wrote: post #190
vel0city wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't go a single day without seeing someone in my extended network on LinkedIn announcing that they've been hired for a NWS forecaster role! This is obvious evidence of them trying to fill the shortfall. If they were so well-staffed, would they be hiring so much? They have so many openings because they have a shortfall! > none of these have been "shut down." They were, temporarily. > Furthermore, it's ridiculous…

Before I rebut, I want to make very clear - I'm correcting the record because _in the future_ there could be serious threats to NOAA. Crying wolf today when things are tenuous but steady actively harms the community's preparation for when the knives _do_ come out for NOAA. As they have done so many times before, the slashers will point to these episodes of crying wolf as a smokescreen. It's literally their only play.…

> you're cherry-picking issues to paint a significantly more sinister story than what is actually happening.

Their budget proposals trying to slash a quarter of NOAA budgets doesn't seem like a cherry-picked issue. DOGE firing several hundred people and taking a while to fill those positions doesn't seem like cherry-picking issues. Seeing them fail to renew important contracts until after the public freaks out about it doesn't seem like cherry-picking issues.

And acting like the things happening at the NSF don't have any relationship to data used for NOAA is another thing. Oh, it's just programs being axed at the NSF, no worries, they'd surely never touch NOAA. I'm sure data about ocean temperatures has absolutely nothing to do with weather!

You see "the government is dysfunctional and Congress is ignoring its oversight" and yet that isn't an additional concern about the future of these programs, even though you understand the small amount of congressional oversight is the only thing that spared NOAA from massive cuts. What's guaranteeing this congressional oversight doesn't get worse? It's the only real backstop we seem to have and it's track record recently is abysmal, but you're telling me it's all just roses and sunshine!

> conservatives don't actually care about NOAA

Then why did DOGE happen? Why submit budget proposals slashing NOAA by a quarter??

Acting like these things aren't happening is continuing to ignore the foxes circling the henhouse. You were seemingly even unaware about the Regional Climate Centers going offline, telling me it didn't happen. Not understanding that their rapid hiring recently is because of massive staffing shortages, shortages mostly inflicted by this administration. Thinking Project 2025 is just a conspiracy theory when they have been actively working towards many of these policy goals all because Trump told you an obvious lie. I'm sorry, but if you're one of the people supposedly there helping to ensure these programs have a successful future and don't see the obvious attempts to smash these programs it makes me even more worried about their futures.

Re: Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

#202

Post by hvb2 »

willmadden wrote: post #151
hvb2 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's easy to do. No one has expectations of this one. As soon as a government website is down, it's an outrage. I'm sure money could've been saved. But the cost of this site really isn't the hosting, it's the data being gatherd with all the research

I would like to see climate research funded, but it needs to be de-politicized and stop being used to push fear propaganda and sinister policies. They used it to flat out destroy the economies in much of Europe, while somehow China and India were ignored despite being orders of magnitude bigger problems, according to their own narrative. If any of the above were honest, there would have been blanket trade restriction…

The research is supposed to establish the facts that politicians then interpret?

I think, especially in the US, there's no shared starting point anymore. Which makes it very hard for people with different opinions to have a conversation. Not funding science can only make that worse

Re: Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

#203

Post by hvb2 »

groundzeros2015 wrote: post #100
hvb2 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your desire for a higher oversight authority beyond the chief executive suggests you may have concerns about the efficacy of democracy. No that's not what I said. The courts can hold someone in the executive branch accountable. They're the check on their power. Except the president, because of that one ruling. So if the president commits fraud as part of an official act he's immune? No other person in the executive…

The president just tried to operate an executive order and it got shut down by the courts. The specific ruling is about the president being immune from criminal charges while in office. And yeah, you can’t be taking George Washington to court (or jail) while he is leading the revolution. It’s essential for the nation to have a functioning leader, especially among the fog of war. The Bible story of David and Saul pres…

I don't think you understand the issue. That ruling has nothing to do with prosecuting a sitting president. There's been longstanding policy that that doesn't happen.

The fact that an executive order is incompatible with the constitution is something completely different. That's a law being judged on its merits. Immunity is about the executive as a person.

Re: Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

#204

Post by mike_hearn »

sampli wrote: post #8
nickff wrote: post #4

This may be a controversial view, but I don't think we should trust the actor in charge of regulating and limiting emissions with its own supervision. The Federal Government has a plethora of agencies which regulate pollution and energy usage; how can we trust either its legislative or executive branch to ensure that their creations are effective or efficient? To that end, I hope the Trump administration's actions ca…

The only reason we have good weather data is because the government maintains stations in remote places all over the country. Who else would maintain that?

We have good weather data because of satellites, and there are plenty of private weather sats.

The classical US ground station network is actually run by volunteers and has been seriously degrading in quality over time. Its data was identified as corrupted and useless for climatology decades ago, which is what led to the US CRN being built. Other countries however did not do an equivalent, and their networks are still very low quality. Most of the UK's network, for example, is considered unusable for climate monitoring under WMO standards (but they are still used regardless!).

Re: Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

#205

Post by buellerbueller »

fwip wrote: post #129
buellerbueller wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, sadly, several decades ago, one of the parties started running on the platform of "the government is broken" and to help the electability of said platform, they kept breaking the government.

Look, I vote blue too, but you can't ignore that the Democrats have also pushed the slider further and further toward executive power every chance they get. Well, I guess I can't tell you what to do, so I suppose you can.

I don't "vote blue." I vote for whichever candidate offers the most realistic solutions to the problem at hand. At times this may be "blue" but not necessarily. I have also voted 3rd party and skipped voting for a specific role alotgether.

Also, not even sure what you are talking about. My point specifically was about the congress, where the Republicans have stonewalled legislation, stolen SCOTUS seats, and shut down the government the vast majority of shutdowns since it became a "legitimate"(?) tactic.

> Democrats have also pushed the slider further and further toward executive power every chance they get

for example...?

Re: Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

#206

Post by vel0city »

vel0city wrote: post #201
counters wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before I rebut, I want to make very clear - I'm correcting the record because _in the future_ there could be serious threats to NOAA. Crying wolf today when things are tenuous but steady actively harms the community's preparation for when the knives _do_ come out for NOAA. As they have done so many times before, the slashers will point to these episodes of crying wolf as a smokescreen. It's literally their only play.…

> you're cherry-picking issues to paint a significantly more sinister story than what is actually happening. Their budget proposals trying to slash a quarter of NOAA budgets doesn't seem like a cherry-picked issue. DOGE firing several hundred people and taking a while to fill those positions doesn't seem like cherry-picking issues. Seeing them fail to renew important contracts until after the public freaks out about…

Also, you state:

> Because of funding lapses during the _government shutdown_.

This is false! There wasn't a government shutdown at the time! The government shutdown happened from October to November but the climate centers going dark happened in April! Is April between October and November?

The centers went offline because the administration chose to delay reviewing the contracts. That was this administration's official position on the story. You're inventing a government shutdown out of whole cloth, its not even their own excuse.

> You do realize that the NWS was understaffed _before_ the administration and the DOGE cuts, right?

And yet you were just suggesting to me they're not understaffed, calling into question my claims of the NWS being understaffed. You're building your argument on shifting sands. First they're well staffed, now they've been understaffed for forever. Which is it?

Re: Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

#207

Post by thereforegrin »

krapp wrote: post #197
budsniffer952 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember when the "crazy far right" went on and on about pedophile conspiracies and the left laughed at them? Good times.

No. I do remember when they went on and on about how the Democrats and Jews were all Satanic pedophiles and then they elected the King of all pedophiles to stop it. And then they objectively interfered with good faith efforts to police sex abuse for years with false flags and conspiracy nonsense like trying to find a secret entrance to Hillary Clinton's child sex slave dungeon under a pizzeria with a shotgun , and de…

wasn't the "dungeon under a pizzeria with a shotgun" stunt a classic red herring as the accusations were actually leveled against the store next door?

I vaguely remember it being along those lines.

Re: Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

#208

Post by john-h-k »

Loughla wrote: post #113
strictnein wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the understanding that you've been presented with, likely by people looking to mislead you, but that's not at all what our actual budget reflects. The social safety nets that we supposedly don't have take up around 2/3rds of our federal budget.

It's like 50% if you also count the stuff I pay for that is a direct benefit to me at retirement (as does anyone who pays into social security). So it might be a little nitpicky, and your point still stands. A lot of money is spent on defense and business, but not as much as the before portrays. Where businesses benefit is in not paying the tax, instead of receiving payments. That's definitely a problem, but it's a d…

> It's like 50% if you also count the stuff I pay for that is a direct benefit to me at retirement (as does anyone who pays into social security)

It’s not though. The social security you pay is used to fund the current social security payouts. It’s not saved away for you

Re: Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

#209

Post by dnautics »

cogman10 wrote: post #71
dnautics wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

is there like a list of things that government is responsible for, or is it just vibes? if not, how is that not rife for abuse? > Trying to piecemeal fund all these studies and turning science into a game of advertising and begging for causes will put us right back into the dark ages where only the absurdly wealthy could engage in any sort of scientific research. it was already the case, even with tons of funding. (i…

> is there like a list of things that government is responsible for Why yes, there is. Here's an example of that list for the federal government [1]. States and cities also have similar lists though they may not be as accessible to the general public (a problem to be sure). > or is it just vibes? if not, how is that not rife for abuse? Not really vibes, it's spelt out in statute. In some cases that responsibility can…

> We are about to enter a new era, however, where funding for grants can be axed while the research is in flight if the administration decides that they don't like what's being researched

if you care about science not being political, dont use political means to obtain your science. simple as. youre just trying to have your cake and eat it too.

Re: Former NOAA employees built Climate.us to preserve climate data and resources

#210

Post by cogman10 »

dnautics wrote: post #209
cogman10 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> is there like a list of things that government is responsible for Why yes, there is. Here's an example of that list for the federal government [1]. States and cities also have similar lists though they may not be as accessible to the general public (a problem to be sure). > or is it just vibes? if not, how is that not rife for abuse? Not really vibes, it's spelt out in statute. In some cases that responsibility can…

> We are about to enter a new era, however, where funding for grants can be axed while the research is in flight if the administration decides that they don't like what's being researched if you care about science not being political, dont use political means to obtain your science. simple as. youre just trying to have your cake and eat it too.

Everything is politics. Science will never and can never be apolitical because it says things which one political party or another will either like or hate. But further, very wealthy and powerful people have a vested interest in making sure people don't trust inconvenient truths.

Climate change is the poster child for this. We predicted the weather problems and patterns of today when I was a child. But because that truth was inconvenient to the fossil fuel industry, they decided to spend ungodly amounts of money buying conservative politicians and broadcasters to lie about what the science said. And here's the thing, that worked. Their politics overrode good science and science based policy.

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