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Irish datacenters now guzzle 23% of the country's electricity

theregister.com

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Re: Irish datacenters now guzzle 23% of the country's electricity

#201

Post by erentz »

vishalontheline wrote: post #192
erentz wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There IS value being created, or people wouldn't use the tools. But for who and where is it realized? Ireland’s massive data centers aren’t there to serve Ireland’s tiny population. The value is exported overseas and profits realized overseas. So what really matters for Ireland (and any country/region hosting these data centers) is whether the benefits in terms of capital spending + the few ongoing jobs created out…

Employees of construction companies, electricity companies and the data center, among others, all get paid, no?

See: “benefits in terms of capital spending + the few ongoing jobs created”

Re: Irish datacenters now guzzle 23% of the country's electricity

#202

Post by [deleted] »

cadamsdotcom wrote: post #135

Just to be contrarian: what we're talking about is "electricity use from economic activity". This should be good for Ireland but they'll need to build energy capacity to keep up. It's misplaced to be angry about datacenters themselves. There IS value being created, or people wouldn't use the tools. Construction creates jobs, manufacturing the machines in the buildings is a huge global industry; the value people gain…

[deleted]

Re: Irish datacenters now guzzle 23% of the country's electricity

#203

Post by hunterpayne »

defrost wrote: post #179
hunterpayne wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your post doesn't have a reply link for some reasons but here is my response. What they need is expertise in energy generation. They need to understand concepts like a duck curve, power storage and its material requirements, relative EROEI of various power generation sources and a basic understanding of when newer forms of generation are likely to be ready. For instance, they should understand that renewables need to…

So, you want a different article then. This article reports that Irish data centres use a particular percentage of the countries power. > What they need is expertise in energy generation. Okay, so an actual Electrical Engineer with grid scale experience. > They need to understand concepts like a duck curve, power storage and its material requirements, relative EROEI of various power generation sources and a basic und…

Also, I don't want a different article, I want one informed by someone who has a real understanding of these topics. For example, if a datacenter is in Washington state, fresh water (and its fresh water we care about here) isn't consumed. In Ireland, probably some is consumed. This is because of wind patterns and where water vapor will be carried to from the datacenter. If its carried over land, fresh water isn't consumed. If its carried over ocean, then it is. Stuff like this is why you actually need knowledge of the issue, and not just an understanding of datacenter cooling systems.

Re: Irish datacenters now guzzle 23% of the country's electricity

#204

Post by AussieWog93 »

rogerrogerr wrote: post #146
cadamsdotcom wrote: post #135

Just to be contrarian: what we're talking about is "electricity use from economic activity". This should be good for Ireland but they'll need to build energy capacity to keep up. It's misplaced to be angry about datacenters themselves. There IS value being created, or people wouldn't use the tools. Construction creates jobs, manufacturing the machines in the buildings is a huge global industry; the value people gain…

> There IS value being created, or people wouldn't use the tools. While I do think there is value being created, I think this form of argument is not as watertight as it appears at first glance. Humans are very capable of behaving irrationally. I think there is a lot of harmful, negative “work” being done by AI today. Creating fake videos for Facebook, running girlfriend bots, automated scams, etc. Even employees jus…

This might just be my bubble, but us there that much AI being used for girlfriends/scams, or even reels these days?

Most people I know use it as a tool to do things for them, technical or otherwise.

Even the loneliest people I know don't want to talk to a clanker unless there's at least a pretense of work being done.

Re: Irish datacenters now guzzle 23% of the country's electricity

#205

Post by hunterpayne »

hinkley wrote: post #182
Keloran wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am going to assume based on the fact that the article is about Ireland, and Ireland uses the euro, the commenter is in Ireland

That makes it worse! A euro is worth about 10% more than a dollar. Ireland has a lot of oil in their power mix from what I'm seeing, so that makes a bit of sense. Maybe the high power cost is why they're deploying ~600GWh of new wind capacity per year for the last 15 years. Because at those rates the wholesale prices should be able to subsidize a lot of loans.

We don't measure capacity in GWh, we measure it in GW. And if Ireland had 600GW of wind, their entire island would be surrounded by a forest of windmills. Also, Ireland lacks any energy storage so none of that wind can be used for baseload, only variable load.

Re: Irish datacenters now guzzle 23% of the country's electricity

#206

Post by alephnerd »

erentz wrote: post #181
cadamsdotcom wrote: post #135

Just to be contrarian: what we're talking about is "electricity use from economic activity". This should be good for Ireland but they'll need to build energy capacity to keep up. It's misplaced to be angry about datacenters themselves. There IS value being created, or people wouldn't use the tools. Construction creates jobs, manufacturing the machines in the buildings is a huge global industry; the value people gain…

> There IS value being created, or people wouldn't use the tools. But for who and where is it realized? Ireland’s massive data centers aren’t there to serve Ireland’s tiny population. The value is exported overseas and profits realized overseas. So what really matters for Ireland (and any country/region hosting these data centers) is whether the benefits in terms of capital spending + the few ongoing jobs created out…

> So what really matters for Ireland (and any country/region hosting these data centers) is whether the benefits in terms of capital spending + the few ongoing jobs created outweighs any increased electricity and environmental costs faced by everyone else

Exactly, which is WHY IDA Ireland and Enterprise Ireland have been a data center first policy in Ireland since the mid-2000s.

Heck, the only reason Microsoft and Google ended up in Dublin was because the IDA clubbed employment creation with data center construction in the 2000s.

Ireland in the 1990s and 2000s was roughly comparable to Greece developmentally back then and also suffered a Greek style economic meltdown from 2008-13. The only reason Ireland didn't stagnate like Greece was because of how business and tech FDI friendly Ireland was.

Re: Irish datacenters now guzzle 23% of the country's electricity

#207

Post by Schiendelman »

loeg wrote: post #138
dymk wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in the PNW and I pay 11c/kWh (well, I would, if I didn't have solar). Seattle is 13c, King County averages 16c. Where are you paying 5c/kWh? That's exceptionally cheap.

Seattle is nearer 14c (13.75) and likely to increase over the next decade (because of nonsense like[1]). [1]: This alone will increase costs by something like 4c/kWh from these 70 year old dams: https://www.king5.com/article/news/investigations/skagit-riv...

Seattle now has variable rate. I pull most of my power at night, when it's 8c/kWh.

Re: Irish datacenters now guzzle 23% of the country's electricity

#208

Post by Schiendelman »

hudo wrote: post #96

And got electricity price hike last year, and now few weeks ago again, from ~25c kwh, to around 35c kwh! They say its reliance on fossil fuels. Not just that, think Ireland has one of the most expensive broadbands in the EU!

If you're up to 35c/kWh, solar panels are almost definitely cost effective for you.

Re: Irish datacenters now guzzle 23% of the country's electricity

#209

Post by pbgcp2026 »

pbgcp2026 wrote: post #150
anigbrowl wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nuclear power is a non-starter in IReland because the Sellafield nuclear plant in the UK emitted pollution of various for years but UK officials covered it up. The actual severity of the pollution is open to debate but the loss of trusthad a generational impact. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sellafield#Incidents

- To fix these two planks you take a hammer and a nail ... - NO! My uncle hit himself with a hammer real hard last year. It is "is a non-starter". Can we use glue? - Yes, it will be more expensive, less efficient ... - NO! My niece inhaled glue last year. It is "is a non-starter". Can we ...

Exhibit 1: Why West will lose on AI – they will run out of power. LOL.

Thanks to commenters. (teachrdan and hinkley)

Yes, I know the reasoning. I am one of those who is against nuclear power stations, Chernobyl and Fukushima are too vivid.

But. If we don't "re-industrialise" the West, we die in a cold and darkness. Literally. We already killed marine ecosystem in Black and Caspian seas. Moving as planned in Gulf. With amount of oil tankers just burning out in the open the "carbon emission" goals seem like a joke. And still – we keep crippling our industry with all this ... I am tempted to say "nonsense", but it's not. It's actually right thing to do but we "outmaneuvered" ourselves out of right things. Now we have to deal with survival – economy first, people later.

Re: Irish datacenters now guzzle 23% of the country's electricity

#210

Post by morepork »

Waterluvian wrote: post #151

How do the data center people protect their expensive data center from colossal rate hikes? They can’t just pick up and move. So has Ireland made an agreement with them in some way? I’m just imagining that if there’s no local value for three beyond some temp construction jobs and a handful of service jobs, surely they can just bilk them until they leave. So I imagine data center companies only locate where they can g…

I assume that they sign up to long term contracts to secure the price of power.

When it comes to renewal, the DC operator obviously has a sunk cost that they don't want to walk away from. But the electricity generators are also in the same boat. If the DC shuts up shop then there's x00 MW that the generator won't be able to sell and could suppress prices across the whole country. So both parties are incentivised to come to an agreement.

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