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Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

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Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#201

Post by throwitaway222 »

miyoji wrote: post #197
Aurornis wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We "ban" things from school kids all the time, though: Pornography, gambling, smoking, alcohol, R-rated movies. Dua Lipa wasn't doing a photo op with Maus . In the photos she's posing with modern books that are still being promoted by their publishers. I'm not familiar with all of them, but a quick search shows one of them is not appropriate for elementary schools because it includes essays debating which sexual acts…

> one of them is not appropriate for elementary schools because it includes essays debating which sexual acts are appropriate for feminists to perform and other adult topics. Why is it "authoritarianism" to say that a book like that doesn't belong in my kids' school library? Who exactly are you to say what is or isn't appropriate for elementary school libraries? It's authoritarian because it's about people with autho…

This take is pretty extreme.

> Who exactly are you to say what is or isn't appropriate for elementary school libraries?

parents

If you want to go full anti-authoritarian, you are literally advocating anarchy. One in which you have no right to jail someone for killing someone else.

There are many moral systems! Some of them are based in Christian ethics, which many people prescribe to. In fact it's the one the United States is based on. You can also choose something like liberalism. Many or most people would at least agree that "killing randon people at random times" being advocated in a book is not a good thing. And if that's not a good thing, then there is a moral judgement to be made to "ban" said book. I'm not saying that book exists, but if it did - would you "ban" it?

No one "owns" another person, but there are many other forms of relationships between people that allows for one person to dictate a media diet for another.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#202

Post by 7bit »

buellerbueller wrote: post #194
7bit wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It didn't work. The comment wasn't ridiculous. Your reply was. But yes, if you want to flip thing around so you feel validated, be my guest.

Of course it worked. Any authoritarian intent on banning a book just could give the spurious reason that "the library does not have enough room" and then there is no censorship ever, according to the original post. See how childish that reasoning is?

You're right

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#203

Post by anthk »

quaddoggy wrote: post #153

Looking forward to picking up copies of The Bell Curve and The Camp of the Saints since free speech is now so widely supported in Europe.

Except the Bell Curve it's bullshit. I'm from Europe (Spain), and even the Francoists said otherwise. Right wing people further than Pether Thiel itself. Go figure.

A nun, some woman (women are far more aware than men on emotions as their hormones basically grant an A+ on social skills) stated that Black People weren't dumb, but African people had no tradition at all on stimulating or paying good attention babies/toddlers as the Western mom do with little plays and the like. That lead to mild development issues. She followed some children with more Western-like educations and caring and they got far better marks than the ones locked to their cultures.

Add a far better nutrition on top and now you know the reasons on why the Black African countries are underdeveloped. Westernize them and their IQ will boost like crazy.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#204

Post by anthk »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #166
the_af wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't mention the show, isn't this thread and article about books? > It was a thinly veiled world-building exercise on the subjection of women in Islam… then it ends. Nothing really happens. The Handmaid's Tale wasn't about Islam but about religious Christian fundamentalism and, by Atwood's own words, an extrapolation of trends she saw in the US. It's a good book, it seems contentious to list it as a "bad book" as…

[flagged]

Francoist Spain. "Sección femenina". Be really scared of what happened to these women even after the Moon Landing.

That's the true face of the Catholic Church when they have the power and they are not limited by a democratic state.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#205

Post by tecleandor »

wasabi991011 wrote: post #118
weinzierl wrote: post #47

Livraria does not mean library, but bookstore. The Livraria Lello where this is located, is definitely a bookshop. It is not clear to me from the reporting if Manifesto Library is a translation error or if it really is a library within a bookshop. I suspect it's neither and more like an art installation.

> The Livraria Lello where this is located, is definitely a bookshop. And barely a bookshop at that, more of a tourist attraction. You need tickets to enter, and the main selection of books are classics, mainly public domain iirc. They have more recent/interesting books but only as decoration (I asked to buy a Naomi Klein book, they refused to sell it). Most people are just there to take pictures because the stairs i…

Yeah, nowadays I think it's like 15€ to enter, there's like a huge line to enter, and I think it's usually crowded inside. They'll discount the 15€ if you buy anything, but if you don't find anything interesting... it's a very expensive visit.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#206

Post by beaker52 »

rsynnott wrote: post #164
beaker52 wrote: post #88

A venture that gathers objects of subversion likely to draw the ire of authoritarian powers into a single building doesn’t strike me as something likely to peacefully exist for long.

... I mean, it's in Portugal. Are you expecting Russia or a Florida school board or whatever to bomb it?

I mean… yeah? Since when would being in Portugal stop a motivated power?

Just ask Vadym Yermolaiev, Andriy Portnov, Emilian Gebrev or the staff at the warehouse in Vrbetice. Being in Portugal is an implementation detail.

It’s a soft target, but it’s a _very easy_ soft target when people have a host of possible enemies who might be motivated to disrupt your operations to point fingers at. None of the powers you’re criticising are going to be rushing to promote any investigation when your library accidentally sets on fire for the 4th time in 2 months.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#207

Post by grahamburger »

AlexandrB wrote: post #199
miyoji wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one of them is not appropriate for elementary schools because it includes essays debating which sexual acts are appropriate for feminists to perform and other adult topics. Why is it "authoritarianism" to say that a book like that doesn't belong in my kids' school library? Who exactly are you to say what is or isn't appropriate for elementary school libraries? It's authoritarian because it's about people with autho…

You should think this through. The logical endpoint is that all age based content restrictions are "authoritarian". So it should be ok to stock movies like Martyrs[1] or Men Behind the Sun[2] in elementary school libraries, because who are parents and teachers to decide whether seeing a woman flayed to death or a child vivisected is something that a 6 year old should be allowed to see? My real takeaway here is that y…

That type of media was never in schools to begin with. The problem here is that schools and districts made their own, informed curation decisions, and those decisions are being overridden by zealous parents informed only by their religious and political persuasions.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#208

Post by AlexandrB »

grahamburger wrote: post #207
AlexandrB wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should think this through. The logical endpoint is that all age based content restrictions are "authoritarian". So it should be ok to stock movies like Martyrs[1] or Men Behind the Sun[2] in elementary school libraries, because who are parents and teachers to decide whether seeing a woman flayed to death or a child vivisected is something that a 6 year old should be allowed to see? My real takeaway here is that y…

That type of media was never in schools to begin with. The problem here is that schools and districts made their own, informed curation decisions, and those decisions are being overridden by zealous parents informed only by their religious and political persuasions.

The implication here is that schools are making these decisions on a neutral, apolitical basis - but this is not really possible, is it? As many on the left would say: "everything is political". So what we're discussing is (yet another) front in the "culture war", this time about what ideas and values children should be exposed to.

Let's just be honest about that at least.

Re: Dua Lipa opens library for banned and censored books in Portugal

#210

Post by suddenlybananas »

Guthwine wrote: post #89
suddenlybananas wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's strange that a book that was published in 1985 was banned by a regime which fell in 1974.

I was referencing a direct quote from the author, looks like the Booker Prize board actually looked into it and disputes the certainty of the claim. Oh well. However: 1. Regime change doesn't happen instantaneously. The Francoist line of thinking was still pervasive after Franco died, and through the 70s there was a waxing and waning of censorship. 2. The book was still restricted in multiple states, the spirit of my…

Regarding 1, I still don't see why what happened the decade before the book was published in another country has any bearing on whether the book was banned in Portugal.
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