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Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

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Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#201

Post by gwbas1c »

apparent wrote: post #152
gwbas1c wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(2014 Leaf leaseholder here) At the time we were a 2-car household and used the gas car for longer trips. That being said, there were a few times we had to scramble: Once, when it was very cold my wife and I both needed to drive a long distance. I took the Leaf because I had access to a charger. On our last year of the lease we ended up having to move 90 miles away. When we bought the Leaf, we never planned on drivin…

We considered getting a used Leaf but my wife had too much range anxiety, even for vehicles with 70 miles of range. I plotted out on a map how many trips she would have to take in a day (to work, to doctor, to pick up kid, to dentist, to store, etc.) in order to come even close to 70 miles. Of course, she never goes that far around town (only when visiting relatives, when I typically drive and we take a PHEV). But th…

> (only when visiting relatives, when I typically drive and we take a PHEV). But the RA was too great, so we got another PHEV. It has been useful at times to be able to both go 50+ miles in a day without any concern

After the Leaf, we ended up with the Chrysler Pacifica PHEV and a Model 3. The PHEV had so many problems that I'll never recommend them, and dumped it early at a loss and went all-electric. (Both cars). We will never go back to gas.

IMO, the main thing EVs need in the US is a good publicity campaign, more chargers, and better legislation of chargers. The technology is now "good enough" if you have access to a charger where you park overnight, and "almost there" if you can't charge overnight. (IE, if you rely on street parking stick with gas.)

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#202

Post by gwbas1c »

rsynnott wrote: post #193
gwbas1c wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of misleading fact that motivated me to make my post. (Former 2014 Leaf leaseholder.) Americans buy the car for the 1% trips. In my case, most of my car trips are short, but most of my milage is from long-range trips. What's more informative is this post that explains Mexican driving behavior: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48634740

> Americans buy the car for the 1% trips. In my case, most of my car trips are short, but most of my milage is from long-range trips. How many of these long trips are you making? Depending on number might be more economical just to rent for that.

At least once a week. I commute 120 miles round trip one day a week, 180 miles 1-2 times a month, and 300+ miles 6-10 times a year.

I also have 3 kids, a dog, and don't live near a city. If I lived in a city dogless and childless something like Zipcar would make much more sense.

BTW: The "transaction cost" (time) of frequent car rentals is a non-starter. One of the things I hate about renting a car is that every time it's a different car, some I like, some I don't. I just want to pick out a car I like, have it ready when I need it, have it set up the way I like it, and have my "box of crap" in the trunk where I know where it is.

I don't want to navigate through a young ambitious salesperson trying to sell insurance, or the AI car scanner charging me hallucinated wear and tear.

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#203

Post by ben_w »

BrenBarn wrote: post #74
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The playbook to study is South Korea. Protectionism and subsidies for nascent and transitioning industries with a clear ex ante timeline to full liberalization to force international competitiveness. Absent the latter, American car companies’ inefficiencies in design and labour structure have zero incentive to change, and American consumers get stuck with shitty, expensive products. For cars, this would mean federall…

I feel like the "clear ex ante timeline" is a big problem for us in the US. A prominent feature of US politics (and indeed culture) is constantly setting such targets and then chickening out and moving the target back as the time approaches. That in turn creates a sort of moral hazard where no one feels an urgency to meet deadlines because they know they'll be loosened up later.

> A prominent feature of US politics (and indeed culture) is constantly setting such targets and then chickening out and moving the target back as the time approaches.

I'm not an American, so I want to check with this: this is normal for the broader culture? Not just Musk?

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#204

Post by ckemere »

jackb4040 wrote: post #89
bruce511 wrote: post #15

The Ford CEO is not wrong. Allowing foreign imports into the country at prices far below what US producers are able to make will decimate the local car industry in the US. There are 4 possible solutions to this problem; a) convince Americans that it's worth paying more for a locally built product. This is the simplest approach, but there's only so much margin here that the consumer will tolerate. At the moment this g…

The US didn't go from #1 in global auto manufacturing to nearing extinction on accident. The companies shifted production abroad because they didn't want to pay for US labor. We can't just pray for "development" to spark a chain reaction that gets us back on track - we were the most developed and consciously chose to squander that advantage. Onshoring can be done, but it will have a real cost someone will have to bea…

Comparing with China, I’d be curious about whether their companies face the same return-on-capital forces that US (and to a lesser extent western) companies do. So when we outsource to them, it’s to a vendor who is not needing to promised 10%+ returns. As I understand it, this is because the central government exerts pressure on banks to make loans at low rates, so that capital can be raised more easily for targeted industries.

I agree that onshoring is likely impossible without some sort of contextual reimagining of US industry.

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#205

Post by apparent »

gwbas1c wrote: post #201
apparent wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We considered getting a used Leaf but my wife had too much range anxiety, even for vehicles with 70 miles of range. I plotted out on a map how many trips she would have to take in a day (to work, to doctor, to pick up kid, to dentist, to store, etc.) in order to come even close to 70 miles. Of course, she never goes that far around town (only when visiting relatives, when I typically drive and we take a PHEV). But th…

> (only when visiting relatives, when I typically drive and we take a PHEV). But the RA was too great, so we got another PHEV. It has been useful at times to be able to both go 50+ miles in a day without any concern After the Leaf, we ended up with the Chrysler Pacifica PHEV and a Model 3. The PHEV had so many problems that I'll never recommend them, and dumped it early at a loss and went all-electric. (Both cars). W…

Sorry to hear about the lousy Pacifica. We have a friend who had a good experience with it, but one reason we never thought seriously about it is Chrysler's reputation for reliability.

I think you're right about the tech being "good enough" in many places, but it depends on weather (colder climates are not as good). I also know people who live in temperate climates that refuse to have their only car be an EV because of emergencies and power outages. As someone with two cars, I don't have that concern, but I can understand why someone (especially an older person) would not want to go all in on electric, if the grid is not super reliable (and would likely be offline in a natural disaster, when they would need to charge and possibly flee).

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#206

Post by gwbas1c »

apparent wrote: post #205
gwbas1c wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (only when visiting relatives, when I typically drive and we take a PHEV). But the RA was too great, so we got another PHEV. It has been useful at times to be able to both go 50+ miles in a day without any concern After the Leaf, we ended up with the Chrysler Pacifica PHEV and a Model 3. The PHEV had so many problems that I'll never recommend them, and dumped it early at a loss and went all-electric. (Both cars). W…

Sorry to hear about the lousy Pacifica. We have a friend who had a good experience with it, but one reason we never thought seriously about it is Chrysler's reputation for reliability. I think you're right about the tech being "good enough" in many places, but it depends on weather (colder climates are not as good). I also know people who live in temperate climates that refuse to have their only car be an EV because…

I live in the Northeast. The Leaf had problems with extreme cold, and my 2018 Model 3 lost a lot of range because it (surprise) had resistive heating.

My 2022 Model Y and 2026 Hyundai Ioniq 9 have heat pumps and generally work well in extreme cold. It's also nice that I can preheat them in the garage. Most importantly, they don't lose range overnight in extreme cold like the 2018 Model 3 did. I charge the cars before large storms, which is much easier than fighting traffic at the gas station!

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#207

Post by yellowapple »

Animats wrote: post #184
yellowapple wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Giant pickups have silly sales because pickups in general have silly sales and there are basically zero non-giant options in the US market (thanks, Chicken Tax, very cool). The Slate would be the absolute perfect truck for me if it had a 4WD option. Being RWD-only is the only thing making me unwilling to replace my Tacoma with it.

How often do you off-road and need 4WD? I have a Jeep Wrangler, and in winter I have to go up a muddy hill with about a 15% grade to a back pasture at a stable. I sometimes engage 4WD (high) for that, but I don't really have to. Very few of the giant pickups I see have mud on them.

> How often do you off-road and need 4WD?

These are two separate questions.

I off-road an average of once a month, specifically to reach my usual shooting spot on BLM-maintained land. I don't necessarily need 4WD for that, but it's a good excuse to turn it on anyway.

I “need” 4WD when it snows, since 4WD/AWD + snow tires = not being required to chain up when chain controls are in effect, and because 4WD > AWD > FWD > RWD when it comes to snow driving (especially here in Reno/Tahoe, where the snow/ice happens on hills and having more drive wheels is a strict improvement over fewer).

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#209

Post by BrenBarn »

ben_w wrote: post #203
BrenBarn wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like the "clear ex ante timeline" is a big problem for us in the US. A prominent feature of US politics (and indeed culture) is constantly setting such targets and then chickening out and moving the target back as the time approaches. That in turn creates a sort of moral hazard where no one feels an urgency to meet deadlines because they know they'll be loosened up later.

> A prominent feature of US politics (and indeed culture) is constantly setting such targets and then chickening out and moving the target back as the time approaches. I'm not an American, so I want to check with this: this is normal for the broader culture? Not just Musk?

Musk is an extreme case but the general pattern is pretty common. See for instance rules passed in various jurisdictions to the effect of "a budget must be passed by date X", which then is circumvented via loopholes or changing the law so that deadline no longer applies.

Re: Mexican government unveils a prototype for a new homegrown, ultra-affordable EV

#210

Post by wink »

adjejmxbdjdn wrote: post #81
cucumber3732842 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is one of those "the internet is a fad, it'll never catch on" moments. EV's are here to stay. Not saying you're one of them (there are other people here who fit the bill much better) but like with anything else the people on the internet peddling grand narratives lacking of nuance are delusional fanboys, malevolent liars or some combination of the two. EVs are absolutely going to win certain market segments and…

ICE -> EV is not a 30 year transition. I’d be surprised if there’s a consequential ICE industry after 2040 (that doesn’t mean there won’t be ICE cars being driven, just that they won’t be selling outside niche industries after 2040). The collapse of ICE vehicles will happen sooner rather than later due to a few fundamental reasons. - China has gone all in on EVs. It’s hard to compete against the Chinese and they’re u…

You are underestimating how countries and towns can drag their feet. I live in Germany, in an apartment, in a large city. There's hardly any public charging infra in a 1km radius (if I discount the supermarket parking lot with ~3 chargers), maybe still zero and not hardly any.

Yes, some of my friends who live in a house with a garage are very happy with their EVs, I'm still calling it absolutely ridiculous without spending extra time driving somewhere, then charging, then driving back (or a folding bike maybe).

How good they are literally does not matter at all if I can't fill it up.

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