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The last Romans are still around

signoregalilei.com

201–210 of 245 posts

Re: The last Romans are still around

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s the German Holy Roman Empire, not the classical Roman Empire.

In the Legal Fiction they are the descendants of Charlemagne, who was crowned Emperor, and thus were the direct descendants of the Roman Empire.

Didn't they elect the Kaiser until 1806?

Re: The last Romans are still around

#202
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rome was famously multi-ethnic. This is sort of like asking who are the "ethnic Americans". It's just the wrong question to ask.

What do you mean? Native American Indians are exactly ethnic Americans. The rest are from other ethnicities. Just as there were (are) ethnic Romans.

"America" is a place name created by Europeans and "Americans" an identity created by their descendants.

So there's no "ethnic" Americans because its an invented social identity.

Re: The last Romans are still around

#204
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Voltaire gets quoted so often without ever mentioning that the German word "Reich" has a different meaning than the loose translation "empire". A "Reich" is not necessarily an empire, so no news here.

The Holy Roman Empire considered itself a successor to the Roman Empire, so in this case, it is an exact translation.

It's true that the "Heiliges Römisches Reich" (literal translation "Holy Roman Realm") considered itself the successor of the Roman Republic. The English referred to the Roman Republic by what it was in the modern sense: an empire. Therefore its self-proclaimed successor got translated as "Holy Roman Empire", which, unlike the original, it is not.

Re: The last Romans are still around

#205
post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean? Native American Indians are exactly ethnic Americans. The rest are from other ethnicities. Just as there were (are) ethnic Romans.

Ok, but the vast multitude of Native American tribes absolutely identified as distinct ethnicities from one another. If you were to apply this to the Romans, then "ethnically Roman" would include Greeks, Celts, Berbers, and dozens if not hundreds of other ethnic groups, each of which was represented in all the social strata of the Roman state at various times.

I think the equivalent of various native tribes would be Romans, Etruscans, Samnites, Greeks etc. The core "Italian" Romans were themselves a mix of various Italian populations and they even fought the social wars to gain equal rights. And outside of that we have the Celt, Iberians, Berbers, Mainland Greeks, Anatolians, Illyrians, etc.

Broadly speaking you cannot draw an equivalence between Roman Empire and Americas because the dominant ethnicities in US, Canada, Brazil, Mexico and other countries are from outside. But IMO this would be the closest analogy.

The equivalent would be if the Italian Greeks had become the dominant ethnicity in Italy and absorbed the Romans, Samnites, Etruscans, etc into their culture.

Re: The last Romans are still around

#206

I don't know why people are so confused about where the Romans are. There is a guy named Harun Osman Osmanoğlu and he's the current Caesar of Rome. It's pretty simple.

You are mistaken. Karl von Habsburg is the Caesar of Rome.

Actually, it's a finance bro named Jean-Christophe.

Re: The last Romans are still around

#207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans are whatever, British ethnicity is a thing though

Ok. So is a french person more British than a 5th generation black person? Surely 'ethnic americans' are Native North Americans? This is the thing. Ethnicity gets wrapped up in a value judgement. We don't want to talk about ethnic Americans, but are willing to talk about ethnic Britons. Which then implies some rights those ethnic groups should have. But I would dare say the majority of 'ethnic Britons' wouldn't ident…

id put the a cree person as ethnically cree

dene for sure crosses borders

native american is a group of ethnicities reasonably unrelated to "american" so its not particularly useable as "ethnic americans" when its could be just as useable as "ethnic canadians"

Re: The last Romans are still around

#208

This is strictly about linguistic similarity and not genetic similarity. On a genetic map, a PCA plot, Romans and Romanians simply don't overlap. Romanians cluster with their Balkan neighbors, (1) on account of massive Slavic migration from around the 7th century AD, and (2) on account of strong historical and genetic evidence to suggest that the Roman colonists sent to Dacia were largely recruited from neighboring B…

Doesn't "Roman" imply Roman Empire, not the city, though? Those principal component analysis mappings are also quite susceptible to heavy leaning on a posteriori interpretations.

Re: The last Romans are still around

#209
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Legal Fiction they are the descendants of Charlemagne, who was crowned Emperor, and thus were the direct descendants of the Roman Empire.

Didn't they elect the Kaiser until 1806?

Yeah, but every empire worth its salt needs a good 'garage story' ;) (like the Romans claiming to be descendants of Trojan war refugees)

Re: The last Romans are still around

#210
post #84

Depending on who's legal fiction you believe, the Roman Empire was only dissolved in 1806 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsdeputationshauptschluss

The Roman Empire lives on today. Turkey is the legitimate continuation of the Roman Empire

Maybe in Erdogans dreams ;) (
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