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Stanford grads walk out on Google CEO Sundar Pichai speech

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Re: Stanford grads walk out on Google CEO Sundar Pichai speech

#201

Post by bulbar »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #150
bulbar wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hamas has been the government in Gaza for the last years, so I'm not sure what you want to say by stating the mass murdering by Hamas is a police problem.

18 years IIRC. Entire generation has been raised with one and single mission - destroy Israel. Yes Hamas isn't Palestine, same way Trump isn't America. But it's pretty damn close.

Stating that most Palestinian support the Hamas and their actions is a very big accusation, but your have not provided much evidence for that.

I have read some poll results from years ago and don't have deeper knowledge of the topic, just saying one would be to provide real evidence.

And that's only talking about Gaza. Since you said "Palestine" it should be mentioned that Hamas had not been able to dominate in the Westbank so far, so I don't think what you wrote is accurate.

Re: Stanford grads walk out on Google CEO Sundar Pichai speech

#202

Post by rafterydj »

alisonuserland wrote: post #193
gritspants wrote: post #4

Seems this has more to do with Palestine and Google's involvement with Israel to provide cloud computing.

To me, this seems like a rather unfortunate indicator of the death in intellectualism in this country. Granted I recall having stances and an optimistic naivete after graduating college and positions that, while still broadly liberal and left-leaning, shifted notably over the decades since. However, it pains me a bit to see how much "essentialism" stands as an argument and way of understanding the world, even to grad…

Agreed that thinking about the natural progression of today's circumstances are painful to think about, and about the death of intellectualism.

However, I'd like to play devil's advocate here, and speak to your "without ever stating a position" line. I'd argue that's just careful wording hiding under the mask of intellectualism.

The argument against Israel is, as you say, that it is "essentially" genocide. Speaking as one of the cohort (although slightly older than new grad) of which you're referring, every argument against Israel is to my view quite straightforward. Killing innocent people is bad, doing so for political reasons is worse, and when you do it to an entire city/nation/people you have genocide ipso facto. While it's not a very complex take, it really doesn't need to be when there is a preponderance of evidence.

Contrasted with the defense of Israel's actions, and you have a vast array of whataboutisms, downplaying, justifying by means of referring to authority (in Israel), calling critics anti-Semitic, etc.

In my personal experience I find the majority of pro-Israel arguments to be at heart anti-intellectual.

So when you dress up a complex situation by emphasizing how above and beyond all understanding it is, to me that feels you are intentionally muddying the waters to try to obfuscate the real problem. And that, I would say, is also anti-intellectual.

Just because we have generational problems with anti-intellectualism does not mean this particular circumstance belongs in that category.

Re: Stanford grads walk out on Google CEO Sundar Pichai speech

#203

Post by krunck »

dragonelite wrote: post #42
Venn1 wrote: post #2

Tech leaders from this era will not be remembered well.

There's not much good to remember them by for the past decade they have been implementing a global panopticon system etc. At least in the 1990s and 2000s it felt they were doing some good stuff for humanity. But the 2010s and 2020s the masked pretty much slipped.

They knew all along how their companies could profit from surveillance and propaganda.

Re: Stanford grads walk out on Google CEO Sundar Pichai speech

#204

Post by mvdtnz »

paulddraper wrote: post #174
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this seemingly forever argument, it seems there is some nuance in that Palestine is not Hamas and vice versa. One of the perspectives as I understand it is that Hamas is actually a threat to the existence of Palestine; the militaristic behaviour undermines Palestinian efforts at independence (and this is an avenue for exploitation by those who don't want to see an independent Palestine). It is a similar situation…

> it seems there is some nuance in that Palestine is not Hamas and vice versa That's like saying the Nazis were not Germany and vice versa. That is technically correct. Hamas governs Palestine (to be precise, Gaza).

Hamas also has widespread support within Palestine. Overwhelmingly the population of Palestine supports the actions of October 7. There is no clean separation between Palestine and Hamas, as much as one side wants you to believe there is.

Re: Stanford grads walk out on Google CEO Sundar Pichai speech

#205

Post by sosomoxie »

alisonuserland wrote: post #193
gritspants wrote: post #4

Seems this has more to do with Palestine and Google's involvement with Israel to provide cloud computing.

To me, this seems like a rather unfortunate indicator of the death in intellectualism in this country. Granted I recall having stances and an optimistic naivete after graduating college and positions that, while still broadly liberal and left-leaning, shifted notably over the decades since. However, it pains me a bit to see how much "essentialism" stands as an argument and way of understanding the world, even to grad…

The intellectual take is that Israel is an apartheid state committing genocide. That's what's backed by history and facts. The "god promised us this land" European movement is anti-intellectual in every conceivable way.

Re: Stanford grads walk out on Google CEO Sundar Pichai speech

#206

Post by mcmcmc »

philipallstar wrote: post #190
stanleykm wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel has a right to defend itself, but Palestine does not?

[flagged]

> It's like if people in Wales were constantly firing rockets at London because they wanted to destroy all English people, and England doing nothing about it for years until there was a huge slaughter, and then finally retaliating.

Or just like the IRA… asymmetric warfare/terrorism is a natural response to violent oppression

Re: Stanford grads walk out on Google CEO Sundar Pichai speech

#207

Post by seanclayton »

philipallstar wrote: post #190
stanleykm wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel has a right to defend itself, but Palestine does not?

[flagged]

That is one perspective. Would you accept that there are other, equally valid, perspectives which challenge the one you repeated?

Re: Stanford grads walk out on Google CEO Sundar Pichai speech

#208

Post by karmakurtisaani »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #47
gritspants wrote: post #4

Seems this has more to do with Palestine and Google's involvement with Israel to provide cloud computing.

In this seemingly forever argument, it seems there is some nuance in that Palestine is not Hamas and vice versa. One of the perspectives as I understand it is that Hamas is actually a threat to the existence of Palestine; the militaristic behaviour undermines Palestinian efforts at independence (and this is an avenue for exploitation by those who don't want to see an independent Palestine). It is a similar situation…

> One of the perspectives as I understand it is that Hamas is actually a threat to the existence of Palestine;

Don't forget that Israel financially supported Hamas for this exact reason.

Re: Stanford grads walk out on Google CEO Sundar Pichai speech

#209

Post by seanclayton »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #97
gmerc wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not an excuse. Kidnapping is a police problem. Not a genocide problem.

See, it’s statements like this that make me want to run away like heck from this. Netanyahu is a hack, a war monger, all sorts of bad, but Palestinians continued support for Hamas and seeing large scale cross border kidnapping/murder as a “police issue”, it’s hard for me to feel sympathy. So I bought an EV and that’s the end of it.

> it’s hard for me to feel sympathy.

That is a you problem, but the first step to improvement is acknowledgement, so kudos. An improved ability for sympathy is encouraged.

Re: Stanford grads walk out on Google CEO Sundar Pichai speech

#210

Post by iAMkenough »

basisword wrote: post #191
jameson wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder which spectrum Steve Jobs would be on if he was still alive to this day.

Steve Jobs? The guy who was adopted by working class parents, a hippy, with a Syrian immigrant father? I think he might view the world slightly differently than the guys born into wealth, who went to Ivy League schools, and who all seemingly share the same total inability to understand ordinary human beings.

As opposed to the current guy who gifted a custom 24K gold plaque to the current administration, after being raised by a shipyard worker and pharmacist and attending a public land-grant research university in Alabama.

When it comes to business, I think Jobs would grovel at the feet of Trump just as much as Cook has.

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