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What it feels like to work with Mythos

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Re: What it feels like to work with Mythos

#201

Post by bschwindHN »

aix1 wrote: post #187
ImaCake wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fun and it looks good regardless of whether its 100% correct (It would certainly take me more than 9 hours of work to do better than this). Making these bespoke tools possible for most people is a big deal.

The UI is full of glitches: the legend that's placed right on top of Australia, the title that doesn't fit in the box, the crosshair that doesn't accurate track the cursor, the pixellated fonts along the perimeter, the unreadable colour combinations in the overlay, the rendering glitches along the axes when you flip from tab to tab and so on and so forth. It's like someone took a beatiful, intricate piece of vintage…

Yep. People are creating garbage with AI that looks passable at first glance, or maybe acceptable if you have no taste. This is the kind of software we can expect to receive in the next few years.

Re: What it feels like to work with Mythos

#202

Post by bandrami »

jimbokun wrote: post #118
an0malous wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These posts are never written by software engineers, it’s always some tech exec, retired engineer, or VC. This author is apparently a professor at the Wharton School of Management? None of these people have to ship or maintain real products, they’re just making side projects. The only decent software engineering perspective I’ve seen has been from Mitchell Hashimoto.

Well that’s kind of the point. They can just summon bespoke software out of the ether that only handles the use cases of themselves and a few of their collaborators. Making “side projects” was mot possible for non-developers before powerful LLMs. Now it is.

Well, right, but if the real use case for LLMs is "making software that wasn't economical to make before" that's bearish for the labs because it means they're only going to be chasing the low end of the market.

Re: What it feels like to work with Mythos

#203

Post by xavierforge »

No question the capability jump is real, but in my experience it correlates with shortcut-taking. Fable 5 (and Opus 4.8 before it) hallucinates more than any Claude model I’ve used. The most common failure mode is asking it to modify existing code and watching it skip reading the original file, reconstruct that section from imagination, and then apply edits on top of its own invention, even with full context provided.

Maybe my prompts are too vague, but it’s worth noting that every example in the post is a greenfield build, and vague prompting seems to hold up fine when there are no existing constraints to respect.

Re: What it feels like to work with Mythos

#204

Post by geraneum »

chickensong wrote: post #140
eithed wrote: post #38

What I find fascinating that there is so little substance in this article about the quality of produced code and the medium. Is the code documented and tested? Is it understandable and extendable? Is it secure? What language, framework, database was used? Author mentions judgement and taste - well, is the code tasteful? Will the model rearchitecture the entire thing if I ask it to add new functionality, spending anot…

You probably don't care about the ingredients or engineering of asphalt, only if the road does its job well or is filled with potholes. Outside of the software industry, nobody gives a shit about code or databases.

> You probably don't care about the ingredients or engineering of asphalt

Everyone does. You don’t think about it everyday because we’ve delegated it to experts which don’t come up with a new composition of Asphalt every time you press “generate”. It’s rigorously battle tested and short of intentional negligence, it’s consistent. I’m amazed how people are forgetting how the world actually works.

Re: What it feels like to work with Mythos

#205

Post by bluegatty »

olafmol wrote: post #64

This little line from the article scares me: "but a software engineer would iron out the remaining potential bugs that I could not find quickly" Every sw dev knows this is a very dangerous, and unrealistic, assumption.

it's basically a tiny statement that kind of hand waves all the 'actual stuff'.

Re: What it feels like to work with Mythos

#206

Post by winwang »

rstuart4133 wrote: post #146
Ferret7446 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Humans are very expensive, so the equation almost always falls against them. It's not just salary, but also safety/labor regulation, legal risk, vacations, sick time, personal conflicts, HR, benefits. Even when automation is more expensive on paper, it's generally still cheaper

> Humans are very expensive, so the equation almost always falls against them. You underestimate what these models cost. Uber's budget is $1,500/dev/month. I gather that was put in place because the dev's were going through $6,000/dev/month, which Uber decided could not be cost justified. Fable costs at least twice as much, or $12,000/dev/month. Fable can apparently work for hours without supervision, which means a s…

Minor note, 2x $/tok is not 2x cost. Personally, I see Fable being significantly more token-efficient than Opus 4.8. Then, there's also the compounding costs of quality.

Re: What it feels like to work with Mythos

#207

Post by geraneum »

mawadev wrote: post #66

Isn't it weird that we started to gauge the quality of a model by checking the vibe of the vibe coding?

You can see this all over the place. Under the Fable post in HN, you have simonw talking about the “feel” of working with Fable and how much better it is. If I believed in conspiracies, I’d have said it’s all orchestrated marketing…

Re: What it feels like to work with Mythos

#208

Post by locknitpicker »

phil21 wrote: post #183
bathtub365 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do they even need coders to fix these bugs? It would be an order of magnitude (at least) to ask Claude to find and fix them, and it will likely be successful. Building in the physical world has physical and time constraints that cannot be overcome, which is one of the reasons architecture (and engineering) are so important in this domain. In software development these constraints were only inherent when people we…

> I think the entire definition of technical debt has changed. I’ve been sceptical of these tools and still approach their output with caution. This very well summarizes my current thinking on the subject as well. And most of my career has been playing the role of technical debt nazi. Much to the detriment of my earning potential. Does AI make incredibly inefficient code most of the time? Yup. But it does it at light…

> Does AI make incredibly inefficient code most of the time? Yup. But it does it at lightspeed with minimal effort.

This hits the nail in the head.

Detractors often hang on to examples of coding assistants making mistakes or output subpar code, but they somehow miss the fact that coding assistants can also be prompted again and refactor whole swaths of code just as fast as they introduce oopsies. This means that the worst case scenario implies fast convergence to an acceptable outcome, and from there also fast iteration to improve upon that.

Re: What it feels like to work with Mythos

#209

Post by Chu4eeno »

warkdarrior wrote: post #103
younglunaman wrote: post #68

>What it feels like to work with Mythos >Looks Inside >So I did this with fable... What?

Fable is Mythos with extra guardrails, so the analysis holds.

Considering all the initial Mythos hype (before they released Fable) was for things that Mythos explicitly can't do, no, not really.

Re: What it feels like to work with Mythos

#210

Post by otabdeveloper4 »

eithed wrote: post #38

What I find fascinating that there is so little substance in this article about the quality of produced code and the medium. Is the code documented and tested? Is it understandable and extendable? Is it secure? What language, framework, database was used? Author mentions judgement and taste - well, is the code tasteful? Will the model rearchitecture the entire thing if I ask it to add new functionality, spending anot…

Don't harsh my vibes, man.
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