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Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

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Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#201
post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

non native speaker here - I don't get it.

It's an old English word (predating the sexual connotation): cum - Used in indicating a thing or person which has two or more roles, functions, or natures, or which has changed from one to another. Basically nobody uses that language construct anymore until you run headlong into it in a Hackernews comment or something

“cum” (rhymes with “broom”, rather than “dumb”) is Latin for “with”.

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#202
post #188

They think a next token predictor model is alive or can become AGI/ASI. Altman talked about making a religion. Amodei talks about "building a God" and meets with religious leaders (including the Vatican). I'm convinced these CEOs have "AI psychosis" [1]. LLMs are extremely powerful pseudo-AI and will bring a pseudo-singularity, but they are not true AI [2] and a human at the wheel is still needed for the foreseeable…

I am getting tired of hearing "next token predictor" from carbon-based facial expression predictors. You are saying this like an argument which allows somehow estimate upper bound of possible influence of these entities. And I do not see how this help to make predictions. It sounds to me like saying "but air is just molecules bobbing around". OK, that's true, but does it help calculate wing aerodynamic profile? Yup,…

It's telling that the most frequent attempt at a counter-argument is just thinly-veiled misanthropy.

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#203

I believe the great problem of our age is deciding who controls technology. The technologists who create it believe they should control it, the people who use it are starting to believe they should control it and the governments who write the laws believe they should control it. And now the priests believe they should also play role. So is the next phase of "Democracy" electing who controls technology?

>>> So is the next phase of "Democracy" electing who controls technology?

I hope so. Recent turns of events notwithstanding, I remain optimistic about democracy in the long run. I think it's going to get harder to say with a straight face that the private sector can really manage vital institutions better than government.

Recent reports about commencement speeches at college graduations suggest that within the span of a just a few years, computer programmers no believe that they are riding on the coattails of the technology oligarchs. Besides, nobody wears coats with tails any more.

We we go there in one easy step? I'm not that optimistic.

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#204
post #188

They think a next token predictor model is alive or can become AGI/ASI. Altman talked about making a religion. Amodei talks about "building a God" and meets with religious leaders (including the Vatican). I'm convinced these CEOs have "AI psychosis" [1]. LLMs are extremely powerful pseudo-AI and will bring a pseudo-singularity, but they are not true AI [2] and a human at the wheel is still needed for the foreseeable…

I am getting tired of hearing "next token predictor" from carbon-based facial expression predictors. You are saying this like an argument which allows somehow estimate upper bound of possible influence of these entities. And I do not see how this help to make predictions. It sounds to me like saying "but air is just molecules bobbing around". OK, that's true, but does it help calculate wing aerodynamic profile? Yup,…

> I am getting tired of hearing "next token predictor" from carbon-based facial expression predictors.

That's not even a clever swipe, and it's tiring seeing such a knee-jerk reaction to a completely accurate description. LLMs are next token predictors. People are not. Humans have an inner world and subjective experience. Humans learn through their experiences, not just backprop.

Token predictors are lesser, they are not alive and will never be alive.

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#205
post #22

Frank Herbert was prophetic.

If the subtext here is that this is the start of a Butlerian Jihad, I think you've terribly misread the encyclical.

I'm not saying the encyclical is advocating for the Butlerian Jihad, but that we're inevitably heading towards one.

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#206
post #69

I believe the great problem of our age is deciding who controls technology. The technologists who create it believe they should control it, the people who use it are starting to believe they should control it and the governments who write the laws believe they should control it. And now the priests believe they should also play role. So is the next phase of "Democracy" electing who controls technology?

In England, ca. 1500s common law established the legal precedent that if your cattle broke loose of its pen, wandered into your neighbor's field and trampled their garden, you were liable for the damage your cattle caused. Meanwhile, 500 years later Uber could disrupt the livery industry with VC cash that rendered a NY cab's owner/operator 6-figure financed medalion license worthless, and somehow that wasn't Uber's p…

> Meanwhile, 500 years later Uber could disrupt the livery industry with VC cash that rendered a NY cab's owner/operator 6-figure financed medalion license worthless, and somehow that wasn't Uber's problem.

It’s weird to see the completely broken NY taxi cab medallion system brought up as a good thing.

Most taxi drivers didn’t own a medallion. They had to rent one from one of the operations that had bought them up. It was a government granted monopoly in the control of companies that charged the drivers for the right to be able to work.

The price was high partially because the supply was artificially limited, which made getting a cab bad for people of the city.

People like to criticize Uber but let’s not glorify the past system. It sucked. The Uber model that let anyone work without having to surrender their pay to some company hoarding the tokens was great for drivers and for people of the city.

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#207

I believe the great problem of our age is deciding who controls technology. The technologists who create it believe they should control it, the people who use it are starting to believe they should control it and the governments who write the laws believe they should control it. And now the priests believe they should also play role. So is the next phase of "Democracy" electing who controls technology?

There's nothing really special about technology here. It's just allocation of power, the same problem as ever.

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an old English word (predating the sexual connotation): cum - Used in indicating a thing or person which has two or more roles, functions, or natures, or which has changed from one to another. Basically nobody uses that language construct anymore until you run headlong into it in a Hackernews comment or something

“cum” (rhymes with “broom”, rather than “dumb”) is Latin for “with”.

that's when it appears cum "laude" (eg)

in commonwealth (seniors in everyday UK, HR and pedants otherwise) usage it rhymes with dumb, like you'd expect

https://youtu.be/RzESsmv5FhM

Radcliff-cum-Chackmore

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am getting tired of hearing "next token predictor" from carbon-based facial expression predictors. You are saying this like an argument which allows somehow estimate upper bound of possible influence of these entities. And I do not see how this help to make predictions. It sounds to me like saying "but air is just molecules bobbing around". OK, that's true, but does it help calculate wing aerodynamic profile? Yup,…

> I am getting tired of hearing "next token predictor" from carbon-based facial expression predictors. That's not even a clever swipe, and it's tiring seeing such a knee-jerk reaction to a completely accurate description. LLMs are next token predictors. People are not. Humans have an inner world and subjective experience. Humans learn through their experiences, not just backprop. Token predictors are lesser, they are…

> People are not. Humans have an inner world and subjective experience. Humans learn through their experiences, not just backprop.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

But this is complicated and takes us sideways. Let's say somehow we can determine if LLM has inner world or/and subjective experience. Will this new gathered piece of information affect your estimate of upper bounds of LLM capabilities? It does not affect my estimate.

Re: Leo's first encyclical attacks technological messianism

#210

I believe the great problem of our age is deciding who controls technology. The technologists who create it believe they should control it, the people who use it are starting to believe they should control it and the governments who write the laws believe they should control it. And now the priests believe they should also play role. So is the next phase of "Democracy" electing who controls technology?

Imagine that. People who are responsible for guiding the morals of much of the world's population see moral implications in AI. How dare these mere "religious leaders" guide their flock.

FFS. Morals come from somewhere. For many, that's religion. Deal with it.

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