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What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

jacquescorbytuech.com

201–210 of 428 posts

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#201
post #31

If my phone interrupts me, it should either mean someone genuinely needs my attention right now or it should not be disrupting me at all. That's my notification set up. Apps allowed to receive push notifications Phone, Messages, Whatsapp, Apple Health, [brand] bank. That concludes the list. There is no reason any other app needs to be able to instantly ping me. Most apps are not notifying you because something matter…

The biggest problem are apps that do both. For example, I want Uber to notify me when my driver has arrived, but I don't want it to notify me when they have a special 10% discount on my next 5 rides. It's not straightforward to block one but not the other.

WellsFargo does that. Important notification and advert-BS on the same channel. If you block their notifications you don't get the near-real-time Zelle alert. Enabled you get what you want and also YOU MIGHT BE PRE-APPROVED!

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#202

I wish apple/google would implement better notification control - like the ability to turn off all marketing notifications, and a much better digest format

I just turn off all notifications for any app that sends me marketing notifications.

You are less charitable than me. Maybe I'll adopt your approach. I first give an app the benefit of the doubt and go into the apps notification preferences and see if I can fine-tune their notifications. If not, off for all at the OS-level. If yes, I tweak it, but if I get surprised by one later, off for all at the OS-level or uninstall. It's especially annoying because I don't have notifications shown on my home screen and need to unlock with a pin so if I go through the trouble of unlocking my phone to spam and I extra annoyed with the app.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#203
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this entire article is pretty transparent that it's from the sender perspective, and worried about platforms taking over "sender control". Who is he kidding? The vast majority of apps have absolutely proven they can't be trusted to respect your attention. From my perspective, the more roadblocks the platforms put between unnecessary notifications and my phone, the better. And I don't think Apple or Google are s…

Notification categories are like mailing lists now. You may have unsubscribed from the daily deals email but you're still going to be auto subscribed to every new slightly modified category in perpetuity. Unless you fully disable notifications for an app (in Android at least, in my experience), new enabled by default notification categories are added all the time.

There’s the other direction too. You only get a couple toggles, and something you actually need is behind both, so you can’t not get all notifications

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#204

If my phone interrupts me, it should either mean someone genuinely needs my attention right now or it should not be disrupting me at all. That's my notification set up. Apps allowed to receive push notifications Phone, Messages, Whatsapp, Apple Health, [brand] bank. That concludes the list. There is no reason any other app needs to be able to instantly ping me. Most apps are not notifying you because something matter…

"Marketing never met a communication system they didn't want to co-opt"

(I'm reminded of this every time a client want "WhatsApp support" in their (commercial) app, so they can "communicate with customers".)

But equally every user will have a different subset of apps they want notifications for.

For example shift workers need to know when they've been allocated a shift. Or when a shift has opened up (because someone scheduled failed to arrive etc.) One group of users consider this really important, another group of users treat it as spam.

But, per the rule above, unfortunately "useful notifications" can easily be subverted by marketing notifications. Yes I want to know my delivery driver is outside, no I don't want to know that you're running a special this week.

Unfortunately there's no way to solve this problem technically. Bad actors can (and definitely do) behave badly. But ultimately the system should work for "good citizens". In other words, the user should ultimately determine what they want to see of not. And if an app has "notifications on or off" as the only option then the user should ultimately determine that setting. Not Google. Not Apple.

Building society around the lowest-common-denominator just ends up sucking for everyone. We should actively promote good behavior, while allowing bad behavior to be punished. Not just banning everything "because it might be bad".

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#205

If my phone interrupts me, it should either mean someone genuinely needs my attention right now or it should not be disrupting me at all. That's my notification set up. Apps allowed to receive push notifications Phone, Messages, Whatsapp, Apple Health, [brand] bank. That concludes the list. There is no reason any other app needs to be able to instantly ping me. Most apps are not notifying you because something matter…

I have my phone always in Do Not Disturb. That's it.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#206

I’m constantly amazed how passive people are with things that steal their attention My phone is in do not disturb mode 24/7. If your app notifies me about something pointless, it gets deleted and I start using your website instead I have a mail rule that moves any email with the word “unsubscribe” out of the inbox into its own tagged area. Every few days, I go in and unsubscribe to everything that’s arrived. Whenever…

> passive

I get your point and see it as valid, yet to nitpick most people don't feel they have a choice.

Not answering the phone or replying to people's messages is a no-no to many, which sets them in an arms race against spammers and social apps trying to get them from all fronts. And they get frustrated by us living in no-disturb land 24/7.

I don't know it could be solved, but I feel for them.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#207
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notification categories are like mailing lists now. You may have unsubscribed from the daily deals email but you're still going to be auto subscribed to every new slightly modified category in perpetuity. Unless you fully disable notifications for an app (in Android at least, in my experience), new enabled by default notification categories are added all the time.

There’s the other direction too. You only get a couple toggles, and something you actually need is behind both, so you can’t not get all notifications

Another sneaky behavior in Android is that categories that have yet to send a notification, which of course includes newly added auto-enabled channels, are collapsed under the 'show unused categories' button.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#208

Massively overlong article that really could have done with an editor. Although obviously editors cost money, and I'm reading it for free, so I can scarcely complain. Nevertheless, some concision would have been appreciated. I'm very unclear to me what the thesis of the article actually is. Yes, push notifications run through the vendor's servers. Yes, Apple fucked up hard by modifying the text within them - and I co…

It’s a through line from an article I posted last week about the similar situation in email, which has a lot more depth as inbox providers have substantially more published papers and patents showing their intermediation. https://www.jacquescorbytuech.com/writing/what-google-yahoo-... The next post will be highlighting the difference between the actual state of the art techniques being deployed by large tech co’s (Li…

> Cool man, but it might surprise you to find out that people knowingly opt into receiving this stuff and actually consent to it.

Consent is more than pressing 'Allow' on a notification pop-up. It's often not even informed consent, as those pop-ups are usually a part of some onboarding flow where users are just trying to get to the value the app promises and pressing 'ok' to everything.

Even if people do indeed want notifications at the time of the ask, one doesn't really know if the message provider will wind up spamming, that's a matter of trust. And once opted-in, even if the users no longer want notifications, a lot just don't know how to turn them off. People are often incredibly accepting of sub-par experiences like this because of the friction and capability demanded of them to opt-out. My parents get tons of spam notifications that would pass your test of 'knowingly opt into receiving' but that when asked they say they do not want.

Finally there's myriad dark patterns that tons of apps use, like changing and resetting notification preferences among others.

I'd hazard a guess that observed opt-in rates far exceed users actual desires, so I wouldn't put much stock in them. I do agree that there are some people that like them tho!

Fwiw I've worked on both the delivery side (OneSignal) and developer side (Margins) so I've lived these choices and trade-offs. My believe is in terms of power dynamics, senders generally don't deserve their power to interrupt and should not possess that power. At best, they offer opportunities, which ideally are verified somehow prior to being presented to users. I'm happy that devices and ecosystems are moving in the direction of triaging and filtering sender content, as power needs to lie in the user's holistic, most pre-frontal cortex driven expression of their desired experience, and not just one moment's opt-in button they pressed.

Thank you for writing the article, good discussion points.

Re: What Apple and Google are doing to push notifications

#209
post #111

Android is better because they allow you to change individual notifications right from the notifications themselves + granularly do it there also. On iOS I have to find the right setting page and then all notifications are either on or off. Doesn’t make sense.

You can long press on the notification (or swipe left?) and pick "Turn Off..." among other options https://support.apple.com/en-us/108781#manage-alerts

turn off is the only option basically, try an android phone bro
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