Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

en.ilsole24ore.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 212 posts

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#201

Post by joe_mamba »

vrganj wrote: post #189
joe_mamba wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was your comment on "will of the people" only about data centers or in general?

So of course you cannot decide how others will act, but you _can_ decide how you will prepare - that is how the future is shaped. In your examples, that'd be by increasing deterrence. Just like these taxes do.

I don't think these are connected.

You only get to have an opinion on data centers because politicians in Italy aren't directly impacted and have no skin in the game(no threats, international pressure, lobbying and bribes aimed their way). But if they did, I assure you your opinion wouldn't be taken into consideration on this matter and would be ignored.

Forget nukes, but like if Italians would like a referendum similar to Brexit, on stopping all illegal boat migration coming at them every year, then that opinion wouldn't be given a thought. You DO get a vote on data centers because politicians don't care and it's an easy populist win for them as another commenter here said.

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#202

Post by tartoran »

thefz wrote: post #129
morpheuskafka wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A warehouse or factory would have more jobs, but would also bring massive truck loads to the local roads and corresponding pollution. The low staffing of datacenters means that one they are built there is little transportation impact.

And there is almost zero value generated locally.

The tax will address that.

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#203

Post by conception »

shlant wrote: post #105
conception wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously because they care more about things than just making money.

> Obviously because they care more about things than just making money. why should someone be banned from selling their land if they want?

Welcome to zoning?

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#204

Post by Rekindle8090 »

amluto wrote: post #60

To me, datacenters, especially for AI (which tolerates an extra hundred ms of latency quite well) seem like an unusual form of development. Many forms of development have similar downsides: they destroy green space, they can be noisy, they compete for energy resources [0], etc. On the flip side, though, most new developments add substantial value: jobs, tax revenue, increased industry around them, local availability…

[dead]

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#205

Post by Rekindle8090 »

condis wrote: post #139
oblio wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't DC remotely managed for almost everything? How does a DC in Paris, Alabama benefit the locals if 99% of the well paid jobs for it are done in the Bay Area?

[dead]

[dead]

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#206

Post by joe_mamba »

Henchman21 wrote: post #142
plastic-enjoyer wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This is a pretty broad generalization with nothing offered to back it up. In addition, it seems pretty insulting generally.

>with nothing offered to back it up

Except you know, the history of SV, NY and the US in general, which has been treated more like an economic zone for the world's intellectual and financial elite, rather than the home of a specific group of ethnic people indigenous to that area with a sense of inheritance and belonging whose roots spawn hundreds/thousands of years, like in other places on the planet that don't produce tech scale-ups.

In other words, engineers, scientists, tech people and the entrepreneurs and financiers that enable this ecosystem, migrate to the place that offers them the best capital, opportunities and levers of exploitation that enable capital extraction at scale, but they don't have any roots to tie them that place they moved to, come hell or high water. The moment the capital or top jobs are drying up or the taxes hike up, then they pack their bags and leave, and move on to the next best place for resource extraction.

That's what he meant.

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#207

Post by dukeyukey »

john_strinlai wrote: post #130
dukeyukey wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Directly, sure. Indirectly, they have created many millions of jobs. Tens of millions at the very lowest. There are nearly 30 million web developers alone.

the problem is that many of those jobs often aren't in the locale. by necessity, car factory workers work, live, spend money, and pay taxes in the same general area as the car factory. that does not hold true for web developers (which may be in entirely different countries).

I recognise that makes it politically tricky, but "creates almost no jobs" and "creates lots of jobs, but dispersed elsewhere" are two very different statements. And for data centers the latter is true, and the former is a lie.

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#208

Post by vrganj »

joe_mamba wrote: post #201
vrganj wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So of course you cannot decide how others will act, but you _can_ decide how you will prepare - that is how the future is shaped. In your examples, that'd be by increasing deterrence. Just like these taxes do.

I don't think these are connected. You only get to have an opinion on data centers because politicians in Italy aren't directly impacted and have no skin in the game(no threats, international pressure, lobbying and bribes aimed their way). But if they did, I assure you your opinion wouldn't be taken into consideration on this matter and would be ignored. Forget nukes, but like if Italians would like a referendum simi…

Ironically, those two things you are talking about are actual populist talking points.

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#209

Post by Aurornis »

GeoAtreides wrote: post #188
Aurornis wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the original Luddite movement has been mischaracterized, but you're also leaning toward mischaracterizing them in too friendly of a light. The Luddites were also guilty of violent acts and they were afraid to threaten or use violence to protect their interests. It wasn't a simple disagreement of evil capitalists versus saintly laborers. They cared more about protectionism for their personal businesses. T…

OP: They were demanding protections from exploitation by the capital class: abolishment of child labour, fair wages, social protection from job loss, etc. [...] Destroying the machines was a way to gain leverage, nothing more. You: They were also very clearly on the wrong side of history.We would not be better off if the Luddites had won and forced us all to be doing manual labor all day without the help of those evi…

You completely ignored the point of my post, the factual inaccuracies in the post I was responding to, and used the cheap trick of attacking words I didn’t say (literally the strawman fallacy)

Ironic that you’re waxing philosophically about the quality of comments on HN while doing all of this.

Re: Lombardy increases charges for the construction of data centres in green areas

#210

Post by tomhow »

vrganj wrote: post #61
perks_12 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do. But currently we are choosing the Luddite way of doing things. Simply ignoring this fantastic technology is not a choice but economic suicide.

[flagged]

Omit internet tropes.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Post reply on HN