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The Art of Money Getting

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Re: The Art of Money Getting

#201

Post by neilv »

kaladin-jasnah wrote: post #191
neilv wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like you, I've found that working with people of integrity (or some qualities closely related to that) is very important to me. Not in a "new-grad or corporate PR appropriating meaningless platitudes" kind of way. But in a "I have seen multiple times how one untrustworthy person can easily wreck all the work of a team or organization, and make their lives miserable, so averting that is a high priority" kind of way. L…

As a new grad, I think a lot of the companies that have respectable goals to me only hire at the senior level. So what am I supposed to do, go do something I deeply disagree with for a few years so I can eventually work on something respectable?

Congrats on graduating.

Like everyone else at the moment, you're living in interesting times.

AFAIK, there are not enough respectable companies for even the senior engineers.

(And you may have already noticed that a lot of companies are run by people who make a half-hearted effort to drape the company with positive PR language. But they'll soon hint at their true intentions with their actions. Even in a brand new startup, you can simply look at equity allocation, to see what the founder actually thinks about warm-fuzzy ideas like social equality and valuing others: compare their allocation of wannabe-billionaire founder shares, to the token amount of peanuts in stock options that they think the first hires deserve if the company is successful.)

The good news is that a lot of people are looking for high total compensation, or career stability, as higher priorities than respectability, so... less competition for the respectable jobs.

One idea: make a ranking list of companies based on how respectable you think they are (recognizing that most have downsides), and then see how close to the top of the ranking you should focus your energies. Do a first shot at this ranking early on (and revise over time based on actions, not overtures), and you might check yourself when a company with low respectability ranking approaches you.

When you find a good company, let people know.

Re: The Art of Money Getting

#202

Post by SoftTalker »

lelanthran wrote: post #100
voidfunc wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like building stuff. I don't care about the code. I convinced myself over 20 years that I liked coding to get myself through the drudgery of corporate work but the reality is the building was the important thing to me. I'm able to build things quickly with AI.

> I like building stuff. I don't care about the code. Sounds like you like having stuff, not building stuff.

It's all a matter of what you have added.

A carpenter can build a house with commercially produced dimensional lumber without having to harvest the trees, cut them into boards of standard dimensions, kiln-dry it, and transport it to the building site. We still say he "built" the house.

At some point, though, it's fair to ask "what did I add?"

If you are directing other people (or maybe robots, someday) to do the actual building, you can't really claim to have "built a house" even though it all happened under your direction.

I guess bottom line for me to feel I had a real part in "building" a thing would be whether I added anything I am specifically qualified or skilled at doing, or did I do what anyone could have done?

Re: The Art of Money Getting

#203

Post by cindyllm »

armchairhacker wrote: post #181
matheusmoreira wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we did bad things to people and made filthy money I blame society. It systematically rewards sociopathic behavior. I was raised with integrity and honesty as core values. Every single day I am psychologically assaulted by the fact we not only have all these sociopaths running around but also the fact that they are the ones making it . It makes me wish I was one of them. Maybe one day I'll finally break and start ca…

> It makes me wish I was one of them. Imagine feeling starved no matter how much you have, knowing the vast majority hate you and would gang up on you, so you form close alliances with others who (like you) would mercilessly betray you if they felt it would benefit them. Society doesn’t reward every sociopath or even most of them. It rewards people who are smart, disciplined, charming, and (in other ways) lucky. But…

[dead]

Re: The Art of Money Getting

#204

Post by amunozo »

toast0 wrote: post #62
amunozo wrote: post #2

The hardest thing is to know what's your best fit. Any advice?

Like with many things, finding the best is hard, finding a good enough fit is a lot more attainable and maybe should be the goal. If you work on projects in groups often, you might be able to find what fits you by what things you end doing especially if you do those parts well. Do you read and interpret the directions, do you do the assembly, do you keep the group on task, do you verify the output is acceptable, do y…

Thanks for your comment. I spent the last 5 years doing a PhD in NLP that I defend next month, which is a solitary endeavor. I don't feel particularly good at it, especially given the competitive moment of the field. I am trying to transition to industry but landing a job it's being hard. I think that I am good at being a link between people and maintaining a good atmosphere. I realized that I liked people more than I thought before and that working full time in front of a screen is something I would rather not do the rest of my life.

Re: The Art of Money Getting

#205

Post by amunozo »

doug_durham wrote: post #27
amunozo wrote: post #2

The hardest thing is to know what's your best fit. Any advice?

What do you find yourself gravitating to? What part of your job comes easiest? That things are easy to you that other’s find difficult? What do you spend time learning more about even when you don’t have to? Those are directional. For me the first time I started writing code I knew that’s what I’d need to do for a living.

Thanks for your comment. I spent the last 5 years doing a PhD in NLP that I defend next month, which is a solitary endeavor. I don't feel particularly good at it, especially given the competitive moment of the field. I am trying to transition to industry but landing a job it's being hard. I think that I am good at being a link between people and maintaining a good atmosphere. I realized that I liked people more than I thought before and that working full time in front of a screen is something I would rather not do the rest of my life. On the contrary, I feel gravitating toward social sciences, economy, culture, governance and stuff that is not very close to my professional/studies expertise.

Re: The Art of Money Getting

#206

Post by amunozo »

lugu wrote: post #48
amunozo wrote: post #2

The hardest thing is to know what's your best fit. Any advice?

Ask people who know you well what you are talented for. Oftentimes we don't see it ourselves. As you get good at something, it become easier, and you think of it as a given. On the opposite, we tend to over appreciate what is difficult for us.

Thanks! I will, definitely.

Re: The Art of Money Getting

#207

Post by twoWhlsGud »

neilv wrote: post #201
kaladin-jasnah wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a new grad, I think a lot of the companies that have respectable goals to me only hire at the senior level. So what am I supposed to do, go do something I deeply disagree with for a few years so I can eventually work on something respectable?

Congrats on graduating. Like everyone else at the moment, you're living in interesting times. AFAIK, there are not enough respectable companies for even the senior engineers. (And you may have already noticed that a lot of companies are run by people who make a half-hearted effort to drape the company with positive PR language. But they'll soon hint at their true intentions with their actions. Even in a brand new sta…

Look for companies with big fierce customers. This gives you an ally when you go to your boss to try to get the company to do the right thing. I moved from big tech to big manufacturing a couple decades ago, and it's the best move I've ever made, for exactly that reason.

Re: The Art of Money Getting

#208

Post by amunozo »

GarnetFloride wrote: post #59
amunozo wrote: post #2

The hardest thing is to know what's your best fit. Any advice?

Are you an extrovert or introvert? Look at how you spend your time. Do you have to spend time with people or have to be alone sometimes? What do you do when you have nothing else to do? I know that's really hard these days with all the distractions we have. So maybe what do you watch or read about? What are your interests? But the world changes. I started out as an engineer and that got shipped to China. I pivoted to…

Due to personal and professional reasons I've spent too much time alone last years. I really noticed that I love being with people and that I cannot stand being all day in front of a computer by myself. I also read a lot about history, economy, culture and geography, but on the contrary my background is in Physics and I am finishing a PhD in NLP in which I don't feel very good.

Re: The Art of Money Getting

#209

Post by amunozo »

anonym29 wrote: post #3
amunozo wrote: post #2

The hardest thing is to know what's your best fit. Any advice?

A lot of pop-psychology doesn't hold up when subject to empirical review, but OCEAN / "Big 5" does, and it's probably a decent starting point. E.g. if you are low in extraversion and agreeableness, you probably wouldn't make a good nurse or waiter, but you might not make a bad lawyer or engineer.

Thanks! I'll give it a try.

Re: The Art of Money Getting

#210

Post by kaladin-jasnah »

neilv wrote: post #201
kaladin-jasnah wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a new grad, I think a lot of the companies that have respectable goals to me only hire at the senior level. So what am I supposed to do, go do something I deeply disagree with for a few years so I can eventually work on something respectable?

Congrats on graduating. Like everyone else at the moment, you're living in interesting times. AFAIK, there are not enough respectable companies for even the senior engineers. (And you may have already noticed that a lot of companies are run by people who make a half-hearted effort to drape the company with positive PR language. But they'll soon hint at their true intentions with their actions. Even in a brand new sta…

Well, the result of my search is that I'm going to join a PhD program instead (and seemingly not doing something that is a brains-for-cheap scheme to optimize Meta's AI accelerators). I also more or less gave up my interest in doing operating systems as a career for now in the process, as it felt like a mountain to build the embedded systems skills I would need to do something that was "good."
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