We've made the world too complicated • Hacker News Board

Re: We've made the world too complicated

#201

Post by doitLP » Sun, May 17, 2026, 2:33 AM UTC

Thank you for this article. I know no truly effective weapon against the Kingsnorthian Machine, except to name it and remind people that they are still creatures and not machines. That it doesn’t have to be this way. That for 99% of our history it wasn’t this way.

The spirit of the machine is born of our desire to never die. And so we continue to discover new things, continue striving, continue servicing desires that will never be satisfied. And destroying anything human and natural along the way.

But keep writing about it. Be an example of anti-machine values. Touch grass. Find the stillness and work to preserve it, in whatever way you can.

Re: We've made the world too complicated

#202

Post by Supermancho » Sun, May 17, 2026, 2:34 AM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #199

irjustin wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember the story of the man who sued his parents for being born because he didn't consent to being born[0]. While as absurd as it is, as I navigate life, I legitimately ponder the question whether it is ethical to have children or not. In my aging, I am more unsure of the answer. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-47154287

There is also the reverse - is it ethical not to have children? Maybe the hypothetical children want to exist.

[dead]

Re: We've made the world too complicated

#203

Post by shawn_w » Sun, May 17, 2026, 2:37 AM UTC

roenxi wrote: post #199

irjustin wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember the story of the man who sued his parents for being born because he didn't consent to being born[0]. While as absurd as it is, as I navigate life, I legitimately ponder the question whether it is ethical to have children or not. In my aging, I am more unsure of the answer. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-47154287

There is also the reverse - is it ethical not to have children? Maybe the hypothetical children want to exist.

That reminds me of James Morrow's This Is The Way The World Ends.

After a nuclear apocalypse wipes out most of humanity, the ghosts of now-will-never-be-born future people hold the survivors to trial because they're ticked off at losing their opportunity to live.

Re: We've made the world too complicated

#204

Post by psb5 » Sun, May 17, 2026, 2:44 AM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #187

terbo wrote: post #141

"And here you find civilized man. Civilized man refused to adapt himself to his environment. Instead he adapted his environment to suit him. So he built cities, roads, vehicles, machinery. And he put up power lines to run his labour-saving devices. But he some how didn't know when to stop. The more he improved his surroundings to make life easier the more complicated he made it. So now his children are sentenced to 1…

There are many parts of the world that are less civilized: Where children do not get 10-15 years of schooling and life is reduced to more simple survival. Not many people try to move toward those civilizations. The people in those civilizations usually try hard to leave them. Underneath the elegant writing style in that quote is just another variation of nostalgia for a past that didn’t exist. We like to romanticize…

Think about what friction means. If there is no frictiom how do you walk? How do you turn? How do you brake?

In systems theory Friction is a requirement for stability, controlability and predictability.

Take any system around you and reduce friction all kinds of x files will start getting reported and pile up. This is all well known(Goodharts Law, Bounded Rationality,Explore-Exploit tradeoff etc) to people who work on system stability not just optimization.

Re: We've made the world too complicated

#205

Post by artyom » Sun, May 17, 2026, 2:48 AM UTC

Invariably, this "simpler life" type of reasoning is unmistakably the product of an urbanite.

There's nothing romantic in progress-adverse, ostracized, uncivilized lifestyles. There's only a small subset of people that would really find it preferable in practice. In the best of cases it implies grueling non-stop hard work. And still you're one bad winter away from being obliterated.

The world is a complex place, but if you find it unnecessarily complicated, scientific and technological progress are not the problem.

It's usually the psychopaths taking advantage of everyone else and ruining it for the rest of us, technology or not. They've lurked around in "simpler times" too.

Re: We've made the world too complicated

#206

Post by parikshitu » Sun, May 17, 2026, 2:59 AM UTC

Who was the "we" who made it this complicated?

This "we" is a huge collective spread across space and time, with a web of complex relationships between groups of humans living in different parts of the world during different eras, acting upon each other through trade, commerce, festivities, wars, politics, etc. This web is so complex, that even good intentions lead to hell.

Perhaps this is just entropy sneaking upon us as time passes, waiting for a critical mass of complexity before it decides to strike with fury.

Re: We've made the world too complicated

#207

Post by wizviper » Sun, May 17, 2026, 3:12 AM UTC

parikshitu wrote: post #206

Who was the "we" who made it this complicated? This "we" is a huge collective spread across space and time, with a web of complex relationships between groups of humans living in different parts of the world during different eras, acting upon each other through trade, commerce, festivities, wars, politics, etc. This web is so complex, that even good intentions lead to hell. Perhaps this is just entropy sneaking upon…

Re: We've made the world too complicated

#208

Post by FarmerPotato » Sun, May 17, 2026, 3:18 AM UTC

terbo wrote: post #141

"And here you find civilized man. Civilized man refused to adapt himself to his environment. Instead he adapted his environment to suit him. So he built cities, roads, vehicles, machinery. And he put up power lines to run his labour-saving devices. But he some how didn't know when to stop. The more he improved his surroundings to make life easier the more complicated he made it. So now his children are sentenced to 1…

Much of our complicated, built environment has mediocre user interface design. If thought were given to that, it would yield humans more agency.

Re: We've made the world too complicated

#209

Post by FarmerPotato » Sun, May 17, 2026, 3:26 AM UTC

psb5 wrote: post #204

Aurornis wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many parts of the world that are less civilized: Where children do not get 10-15 years of schooling and life is reduced to more simple survival. Not many people try to move toward those civilizations. The people in those civilizations usually try hard to leave them. Underneath the elegant writing style in that quote is just another variation of nostalgia for a past that didn’t exist. We like to romanticize…

Think about what friction means. If there is no frictiom how do you walk? How do you turn? How do you brake? In systems theory Friction is a requirement for stability, controlability and predictability. Take any system around you and reduce friction all kinds of x files will start getting reported and pile up. This is all well known(Goodharts Law, Bounded Rationality,Explore-Exploit tradeoff etc) to people who work o…

There's friction.. and then there's human-created obstacles.

Re: We've made the world too complicated

#210

Post by petre » Sun, May 17, 2026, 3:28 AM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #191

jmilloy wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you are overlooking the part of the quote that says "but he somehow didn't know when to stop". Given the option of somewhere with or without modern medicine and housing, yes people choose the "civilized" version even when it is complicated, hazardous, meaningless, addictive. That doesn't mean it isn't appropriate to critique the parts of modern life that have more to do with people trying to have more money a…

> I think you are overlooking the part of the quote that says "but he somehow didn't know when to stop". I don’t think you can extract that point in isolation when one of the anchors for “didn’t know when to stop” includes 10 years of schooling for children as being too far. So the point in the past is at least anchored to the pre-education era. You seem to be talking about modern-modern era problems as you imagine t…

The issue with 10 years of school is that we outsource schooling and childcare to others specialized on these matters. In the past we spuld teach them how to hunt, fish or take care of plants, animals.